Talk:Attempts to overturn the 2020 United States presidential election
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Trump reportedly wanted to join the rioters[edit]
I don't think we have sufficiently weighty RSs to add this to the article, but its in the media and I wanted to note them for followup later. Politico had this scoop,[1] which has spawned (of course) a cascade of other media stories based on the original Politco piece. Apparently a secret service agent, Trumps lead guy, gave closed (not public testimony). The committee hasn't disclosed it. So what we have here is he said..... he heard it from a friend.....that the other person told a bunch of people..... stuff (Politico heard it from a source that the agent testified to the panel.) This is why I don't think the report has enough WEIGHT to be added to the article. But it sure is interesting. Even as the violence was happening, Trump was tryhing to talk his detail into taking him down to the capitol. Instead they took him to the White House. At least, if the report is accurate.
Imagine if Secret Service had really taken Pence to Andrews and Trump got to the capitol.....
Anyway, the other part of this story that we might be able to use if the committee discloses the agent's testimony is commentary from Professor Ruth Ben-Ghiat, who studies fascism and coups, and opined that "“If you’re having a coup and summoned everybody, and aim to be anointed as the head of a new illegitimate government, you have to be there,” I'm sure there's a weightier RS than HuffPost but for now, [2]
References
- ^ Swan, Betsy Woodruff. "Trump privately raised Jan. 6 Capitol appearance with Secret Service agent, select panel hears". POLITICO.
- ^ "Trump Botched His 'Coup' By Not Marching To Capitol Jan. 6, Says Expert On Autocrats". HuffPost. 12 June 2022.
What is the target word count for this article?[edit]
Latest count is 20,800, guidelines say to almost always get under 15,000 - is that our target? Superb Owl (talk) 03:34, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
Reorganize from 'November', 'December', 'January' to topics[edit]
After finally reading the entire article from start to finish, there are quite a few times when the article summarizes what's already been written in an earlier section because it reintroduces a topic from November in December and again in January or other sections that comes with re-explanations of a topic.
I sketched a new possible outline for the article here that could save us ~1-2000 words and maybe make the article easier to skim. Superb Owl (talk) 16:04, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Superb Owl, your draft outline is heading in the right direction. (Also see the Select Committee's presentation outline, because their goal was to convey a larger picture than just the minutia in a timeline.) Ultimately, this annotated timeline won't be the only article about the entire conspiracy, from suppressing votes to subverting the election result.
- The public knowledge that's currently available is too limited about event details, the connection between events and what happened behind-the-scene. We'll need to learn more from Federal prosecution of Donald Trump (election obstruction case) and Georgia election racketeering prosecution. When those investigations reveal the strategies that insiders coordinated, then the revealed strategies will help in creating the structure of a Wikipedia:Navigation template.
- In the meantime, this article can be cleaned to temporarily serve as an annotated timeline for readers to reference during the upcoming trials. Related articles can be started to present some background and explain causes. As previously suggested, this article should spin-off some topics (e.g. Stop the Steal, election audits). rootsmusic (talk) 18:22, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- This article is an excellent resource, and a fine piece of research and writing. Wikipedia should not pander to the intellectual laziness of the masses and edit out any of the fine work that has been done. The many subtitles make it easy enough to skim and find subjects.
- wjk DrWJK (talk) 19:12, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- At 21,000 words, the article is simply WP:TOOBIG and should be split. Unless more than a quarter of content is trimmed out, which I assume is impossible, then it will never reach a reasonable size. Personally I think November 2020 to January 2021 should be split out to Timeline of attempts to overturn the 2020 United States presidential election (November 2020–January 2021), and then summarised as a section in this article, similar to Timeline of the 2020 United States presidential election (November 2020–January 2021). I'm aware that's a big chunk of the content, which is exactly the point, as splitting other sections like Background, Refusal, or Reactions, would barely make a dent in the article size. Up to half needs to go elsewhere. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 09:53, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed CommunityNotesContributor, this article should be an overview. Timeline of the January 6 United States Capitol attack already exists, and I suggest creating one for the Trump fake electors plot. rootsmusic (talk) 14:41, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
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