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May 5

Logarathmic scale for page views

In page information, if you click no. of page views, you see a graph for daily page views for a period. You also get a logarithmic scale. What additional insight does it provide, and is thus helpful? ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 10:14, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

It is useful when there are large variations in the edit counts over time as a logarithmic scale expands low numbers. An illustrative example might be an article that describes a current event: As it happens and interest is high, there may be hundreds of edits per day, whereas some time after, as interest wanes or the article is reasonably complete, those numbers might decrease to a few edits per day. On a linear scale, those few edits (representing just a hundredth of the peak) tend to disappear, hardly distinguishable from zero. On a logarithmic scale they are clearly visible, making it possible to follow periods of high and low activity on the same graph. Addendum: replace "edit" by "view"... --Wrongfilter (talk) 10:55, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

@ExclusiveEditor: See e.g. page views for Bernard Hill who died 5 May. Without logarithmic scale you cannot even see how many views he got before, and it was far more than most articles. PrimeHunter (talk) 08:30, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Two zeros in Ones' complement

Computers using ones' complement have two ways to represent zero. Back in my day, I used Fortran on such a machine. I just checked for 0. I assume that is the way it was with all high-level languages on such a machine (correct me if I'm wrong).

But in assembler or machine language, would you have to check for both forms of zero? Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 22:26, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't know how the different languages handled it, but the article does say [...] a side effect of negative zero is that software must test for negative zero. RudolfRed (talk) 02:13, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Some ones' complement models (e.g. the Electrologica X1) had a zero-test as part of the machine instructions (see here, section 2.4.3  Condition-setting), so one test sufficed for plus-or-minus zero. When using high-level languages such as FORTRAN or ALGOL, the issue was not visible to the user.  --Lambiam 13:38, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

One's complement was used in older models (PDP, LINC) and programmers had to handle value properly. By 1985, this was codified in IEEE 754, stating that -0 and +0 are the same value and programming languages should treat them as such. You mention Fortran. Unless it is a very old version, Fortran's compiler treated zero as unsigned, so both -0 and +0 were just 0, converted as such in the compiler. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 17:31, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies. You speak of early Fortran, the first Fortran I used was FORTRAN IV and it must have handled that for the programmer. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 04:27, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

You mentioned using a 1s complement machine and using Fortran. That tells me you must have been using a DEC F40 on a PDP. Fortran IV was ported to other old mainframes, primarily for education purposes, but DEC ported it (as F40) for the PDP series for business use. DEC F40's compiler handled positive/negative zero, but also gave the programmer the ability to distinguish between them if desired. If you were using a different Fortran on a different computer, I have to assume that that version of Fortran also handled positive/negative zero in the compiler in much the same way. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 12:18, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

It was actually on a CDC 6400. We used a Fortran IV textbook. CDC had enhancements to Fortran IV, but I didn't know about them until I bought my own CDC Fortran manuals a few years later Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 02:08, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

May 6

I need some reliable sources about the history of computer startup sounds.

I'm trying to write an article about computer startup sounds. The draft can be found at: Draft:Startup sound. I need help finding some good sources about the history of startup sounds as well as writing the article itself. Could someone please help me with the article? Thanks! Félix An (talk) 06:53, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

The thing that immediately springs to mind is Brian Eno's work on the startup sound used in Windows 95, which is discussed in his article with some sources you can peruse. Otherwise, it would likely make sense for you to investigate histories of places and people who were developing systems like Microsoft and Apple. Remsense诉 06:58, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Oh dear! I thought of those ancient mainframes where when one switched them on various relays would click as the different bits got poweed up and all the fans would start running and eventually it could read cards or a paper tape and run a noisy lineprinter chunk chunk chunk chunk. But if you put vintage computers into Google it comes up with ones from the 90's! I was already on my third home computer by then! NadVolum (talk) 18:19, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

pdf and pictures

If there is a PDF novel written in a non-English language. which are mostly scanned books of old novels that have no online version. Then is there any software or online website that can lift the written text from PDF scans and write those lines? They are not original pdf files that can be edited by a pdf editor but scanned picture books by scan machine and then uploaded in Asian languages. 2409:40E1:C9:E2A:CCC2:B6C:CF71:29B3 (talk) 09:22, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, it is very possible to use optical character recognition for non-Latin scripts. Specifically, Asian languages are often well-supported, including Chinese characters written both horizontally and vertically. I use a complicated command line script, but I will try looking for an easy web tool to do it. But I wanted to make it clear it's possible. Remsense诉 09:29, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

May 7

Software for generating directed graphs

Is there software that will generate a directed graph such as this one, given a list of "from" and "to" numbers? It will include a cycle. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 02:24, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

As the description says, it was created with Graphviz, which should be usable for your purpose.  --Lambiam 07:23, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

You can use graphviz, mermaid, cytoscape, d3js (look up observablehq). D3Js can do almost everything svg can do, but of course you need to roll your own display algorithms. Graphviz strenghts is that you dont need to care about manual placement, but with complex graphs it will not be pretty. You can also use TikZ or CetZ 2A02:F28:F:36A0:0:0:0:100B (talk) 08:37, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

• Thanks. Graphviz looks like it will do the job and the language is easy to use Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 04:04, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

May 9

Are the IP addresses used by VPNs recognizable?

Are the IP addresses used by VPNs recognizable as such? Can sites you're accessing tell you're using a VPN? I've noticed WP does not let an anonymous user make edits if that user is using the free (fairly limited) VPN service that comes with the Microsoft Edge browser. But does Wikipedia recognize VPN users in all cases? Does it always prevent anonymous users from editing WP if WP can tell they are using a VPN? Of is it the case only for some VPNs? 178.51.93.5 (talk) 01:08, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

They are not generally recognizable per se as such. The policy against open proxies does not apply to private VPNs. IPs from public VPNs may be blocked on sight. This requires identifying them as a public VPN service, which AFAIK is not automatic.  --Lambiam 09:22, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

May 10

Windows 10 vs Windows 11.

I have dealt with computers and their OSs for many years, but I never had anything more inconvenient than the newest Windows 11, I am used to work with file trees and file folders, but here I cannot find the "C" folder. The impression I have is that such a chaotic system was made deliberately but why? Suggestions will be appreciated. I plugged Inyo the computer an external hard drive but how to find it in the software? It is all total absurd 107.191.2.10 (talk)a 107.191.2.10 (talk) 23:39, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Open File Explorer on your machine. On the left side there should be a navigation pane. Click on the "This PC" button, after which a selection of connected drives and partitions will appear, which will definitely include your OS drive (C:)

Alternatively, you could hit the Windows key and type in "Disk Management" and click on "Create and format hard disk partitions." Afterwards, a much more familiar interface will open (I am pretty sure this is lifted straight from Windows 7), allowing you to open all folders by right clicking on them and selecting "Explore."

Hope this helps. Hanoi2020 (talk) 08:26, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

May 12

Longest computer-chess game

What's the longest chess game (i.e. the one with the most moves) on record between computers, not counting moves after one side could've claimed a threefold-repetition draw? Would the answer change if known endgame solutions retroactively replaced the fifty-move rule where available? NeonMerlin 05:10, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure there's any sensible answer to this. A poorly written program could play essentially forever. It wouldn't be hard to write a program that just makes random moves without attempting to checkmate the other side's king. Playing it against itself, it could probably play for thousands of moves before one side accidentally stumbles on a checkmate. CodeTalker (talk) 18:58, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Okay, so what if we consider only those games where both programs have beaten the World Chess Champion in a publicly recorded match without a handicap in their favor, or have beaten in such a match a program that had done so in such a match, or so on transitively? Or only those whose FIDE-equivalent Elo ratings are at least 2800 based on human-computer matches that someone's bothered to provide enough hardware for and publish the moves from? NeonMerlin 01:46, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

I will see the wrong direction in there as the (poor) program will easily crumble in on itself if not designed to severely enlarge repetition paths. Prospective targeting needs to be entirely missing to not arrive early to a simple tic-tac-toe configuration, if pawns are designed to look on to always forward they are often only postponing a clear view but, related to this there's also a notable level of subjectivity. As a result, and ratings being about expectations, what could be the use trying to hardcode them? --Askedonty (talk) 01:04, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

May 13

Punch card loopback

Did any of the punch-card-based computers have a mechanism to move cards from the output deck to an input deck? Was this used for array indexing before indirect addressing was implemented? Did the cards contain the addresses or the data? NeonMerlin 20:59, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't believe so. However there were quite a number of places which had all their data on cards and used various arrangements of card sorters, adders, multipliers and suchlike for their computing needs. See Unit record equipment. I think loading and storing via a register were implemented fairly early on. However there were commercial machines where they for instance wrote the return address into a location where a subroutine would jump to it at the end before jumping to the subroutine. Recursive routines and stacks came later! NadVolum (talk) 21:42, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

It is not clear what it means for a computer to be "punch-card-based". With very few exceptions, all mainframe computers could use punched cards for I/O until in the eighties. The readers and punches were usually separate peripheral devices but some models, such as the IBM 1442, were a combination. Each card that was read ended up in one of its two output stackers.  --Lambiam 17:08, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

May 15

Python pre and post for loop terminology

I'm having trouble finding a reference for the proper terminology of two kinds of for loops in Python. The first one is the normal: for x in a: x+4 (I know this doesn't do anything, it is for this example) The second one is kind of backwards: x+4 for x in a What is the name of the for loop when the calculation comes before the "for" keyword? 75.136.148.8 (talk) 14:15, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

The second one is a list comprehension, not a for loop: https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/datastructures.html#tut-listcomps Variouspotatoes (talk) 17:24, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I didn't think to jump to the data structures section of the documentation to look for it. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 18:21, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

It is only a list comprehension when enclosed between square brackets. Enclosed in curly braces, it becomes a set comprehension.  --Lambiam 14:08, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

And in round parentheses a generator expression. --Wrongfilter (talk) 15:12, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

May 16

payment aggregators and payment gateways

Is it accurate to categorize payment aggregators and payment gateways as payment infrastructure providers or payment system providers? What distinction would be more precise in describing their role in the payment ecosystem? Grotesquetruth (talk) 05:14, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

May 17

I can't pass "Fundamentals of Data Structures" (FDS) and "Advanced Data Structures and Algorithm Analysis" (ADS) no matter how hard I try

I am having a very serious issue with the two aforementioned courses in university (for context, note that I am in university in China, and I am Canadian). I can't understand the content at all, especially when it mentions anything mathematical or mentions a complex algorithm or data structure with names that I can't even remember. (It has nothing to do with the language, since the course content of these two courses are in English, which is my native language.) FDS started out fine, with the basic lists, stacks and queues, which I am more than familiar with and can confidently answer any questions about, but when it got to various kinds of trees, I can't remember them or any of the required algorithms that are to be used on them. I already failed the FDS exam twice. On the previous attempt, I fell short of the passing grade by just ONE multiple choice question, which made me very frustrated. ADS is even harder, with mathematical formulas relating to the algorithms that I don't understand at all. What makes it worse is that although there are two opportunities to attempt the FDS exam every year (in the fall and spring semester), there is only one opportunity to attempt the ADS exam every year (in the spring semester only). I didn't have any issues with any other courses such as C, C++, web programming, computer networking, information security, large-scale databases, etc., but these two courses are giving me stress. What's worse is that there is a 6-year limit (including taking a year off), so I can't take a break from university and come back to this any time I want, and my dad, who funds my studies, is threatening to stop doing so, since he said to me (in Chinese), "If you can't pass this required course, then your entire program has no point for you, since you can't graduate without it. You'd be better off going to a [community] college back in Canada, where the content is easier, and I can stop paying rent every month and being so far away from my family, and you can be closer to your friends back in Canada [with sarcasm]." What should I do to learn the data structures and algorithms that are completely obscure to me and pass the course? This is the only course that is stopping me from studying normally, because it seems that when I even try to rewatch the course content, I still am unable to understand it.

As a little aside that is completely unrelated to the academic problems, it seems that my dad has a drinking problem. He keeps buying large packs of beer despite my requests for him to stop, using excuses like "it's on sale" (Taobao perpetually displays it as on sale) or "it's nostalgic" (since the beer is Harbin beer, the city where he grew up), and I often see large quantities of empty beer cans piling up, and because of this, he has become very short-tempered, which negatively affects my mental health. What can I do about this issue? Félix An (talk) 03:45, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Your second question is not related to computing. Intervening in someone's addiction when they are in denial is generally almost impossible. I am not familiar with Chinese culture, but I know filial piety, showing the utmost respect to one's parents, is a corner stone of traditional Chinese culture, making any potential steps even more problematic than they are in modern Western society. About the only thing I can think of is discussing your concerns with other older relatives in the hope that they can help.

Your first question is perhaps also not directly about computing and more about learning. You wrote you had no problem with C and C++; does this mean you can write programs in these languages (or in Java or Python)? In that case, I suggest that you write code for implementing various kinds of trees, such as AVL trees, red–black trees and 2–3 trees, or whichever kinds are treated in the FDS course. It will help to make the theory come to life. Even if you ultimately fail this course, the exercise will improve your skills and thereby your chances in your future life.

Do you use a textbook for the ADS course? You write that you do not understand the mathematical formulas. Do you mean you do not understand the meaning of a formula such as $O(n\log n),$ or merely fail to see how it relates to a given algorithm? Does the course material just present the formulas, or does it show how they are derived? If not, you can probably find the derivations or proofs online, sometimes here on Wikipedia. Studying the derivations until you could present them yourself to a fellow student will definitely help to understand and remember the formulas.  --Lambiam 10:12, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

For one thing, I think you should take FDS and do well in it before taking ADS. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 01:22, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

May 18

What happened??

Formerly, when I did a Google News search clicking on "Tools" allowed me to sort the articles by relevance or date. Now, however, this is gone; clicking on "Tools" just doesn't do anything. What happened?? Georgia guy (talk) 16:01, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

May 8

Patient 18

Hi everyone, I hope that all of you are fine. Friends, I saw an interview on YouTube with a young man who is at a mental hospital in California (it was in 1961) and it's a famous interview. He has schizophrenia, and talks about his dreams of becoming a piano teacher.

My question is as follows, is his 1961 diagnosis still a criteria for commitment to a psychiatric facility? Have the laws/criteria changed?

Thank you and excuse ignorance, as I'm no professional on any of these fields. CoryGlee (talk) 11:15, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

The laws and their interpretations differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but I think that the general principle is that involuntary commitment to a psychiatric hospital requires a determination that the patient is mentally incapable of taking care of themself or is a danger to themself or others. Many (perhaps most) people who are diagnosed with schizophrenia can nevertheless take care of their own affairs and present no danger to others.  --Lambiam 20:35, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

How short could the beta-decay half-life of a nuclide be?

Even the most neutron-rich nuclides like ¹⁹B has a half-life of >1 ms. Theoretically speaking, could a nuclide's beta-decay half-life reach <1 ms? Nucleus hydro elemon (talk) 11:55, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

It can, but extremally neutron rich nuclei tend to decay by emitting neutrons, which makes beta decay difficult to observe. Ruslik_Zero 12:08, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Many nuclides are known with beta decay half lives under a millisecond. Thulium-180, to pick one example, decays 100% by beta- decay, and has a half life of 0.3 ms. If you want to explore the landscape, the table of nuclides here [1] is a good place to start. Anything in light blue decays primarily by beta- decay, and the farther you get from the central "valley of stability" the shorter the half lives tend to become. PianoDan (talk) 04:54, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

For a number of nuclides, though – including ¹⁸⁰Tm – the half-life has not been measured directly and only lower bounds have been reported. But there's nothing in theory that prevents beta decay with a half-life shorter than 1 millisecond, aside from competition from other decay modes. The shortest I've seen in {{NUBASE2020}} is a half-life of 1.5±0.5 ms for ³⁵Na, though that is only 1$\sigma$ from the 1-ms boundary. ^Complex/_Rational 15:14, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

May 9

LED lighting dimmer switch

Can you tell me about this? Does it it exist yet?

I now have parrot bird with red eyes and if you turn the light on from dark to light it drops him on his back. So I can't use LED bulbs in his room. Because previously I used a dimmer to bring light up gradually. Can you tell me? Thank you. Iqbal. 146.200.107.107 (talk) 02:15, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes. They exist. I just went to the web site of my local hardware store, searched for "led dimmer switch" and found several. HiLo48 (talk) 02:25, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

There are also dimmable LED light bulbs that can be used with most types of dimmer.^[2]  --Lambiam 06:02, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

There are also led light bars that can be programmed for a gradually changing brightness and colour to simulate sunrise and sunset. Some even support simulating random clouds passing in front of the sun and the occasional thunderstorm with lightning. Aquarium lights tend to have such features. PiusImpavidus (talk) 12:13, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Note that dimmable LEDs don't dim the same way incandescents do.

When incandescents dim, a lower level of power continues to be continuously conducted through the filament. The lower power produces less light.

LEDs don't really have variable brightness in response to different levels of power the same way incandescents do. Instead, they're dimmed by flickering them on and off at an extremely high frequency. The frequency is too high for our eyes/brains to perceive the flickering; but since they're not on all the time, less total light is emitted.

In order to respond to a decrease in power this way, the LED bulb needs to have specialized hardware in its base. So you'll have to buy special "dimmable" LED bulbs. I've had very mixed experiences with these, fwiw, and some that are nominally dimmable don't dim well or at all. Others produce extremely unpleasant light at lower levels. -- Avocado (talk) 20:33, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Specifically, incandescent lights (is there anyone still using those? They've been banned in the EU for over a decade) can be dimmed by reducing the root-mean-square voltage over the filament. This lowers the light output, makes it redder and lowers the efficiency. Leds have constant colour and the brightness is controlled by electronically controlling the average current. Pulse-width modulation appears to be the simplest efficient way to control the average current. Dimmable led lights have some electronics that take the input voltage as a cue to change pulse width. Flicker is invisible to humans, but may appear when there's some beating with another periodic process of similar frequency (spinning things, cameras). A simple low-pass filter would eliminate the flicker. PiusImpavidus (talk) 07:54, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, you can still buy incandescents in the US. They keep partially walking back the bans. And they're still allowed for specialty purposes (like heat lamps and candelabras), and maybe at low wattages? I've also recently seen incandescent bulbs with purportedly higher efficiency than old ones being sold in places -- I'd be unsurprised if our regulations are weak. And maybe leftover inventory is still allowed to be sold? Small retailers I think get them under the table from ... somewhere. If you search a major hardware store's site, you'll find a selection still for sale. Here's what we've got on the topic. -- Avocado (talk) 13:17, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

The flicker fusion threshold of birds is much higher than humans, up to 140 Hz (see this article). So a dimmed LED light that looks merely dim to us may appear to be flickering to a bird. I can imagine that that might be as unpleasant to a bird as a flickering light is to humans. Maybe some LEDs have a phosphorescent coating that absorbs and reemits the light after a delay, thus temporally buffering the light output, which might settle the parrot. Otherwise perhaps it is better to dull the light using a translucent screen or by reflecting the light off a surface. JMCHutchinson (talk) 11:43, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, even as a human (hello, fellow humans!), I find dimmed LEDs to produce a very unpleasant light. I wonder if we can detect the flickering subconsciously even if we consciously can't? There's a theory that we can with fluorescents (which flicker even at full brightness), causing a bit of dysphoria in flourescent-lit spaces. -- Avocado (talk) 13:05, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

I have noticed that I can sometimes see flicker with peripheral vision that I can't when looking directly: aaand I see this is mentioned in the article. Flicker fusion threshold may also be of interest. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 188.220.175.176 (talk) 14:57, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Ambivert vs. omnivert

Is there a difference between ambivert and omnivert, or are these the same? 2601:646:8082:BA0:24BD:2FE2:B975:68AE (talk) 06:13, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

• Saucedo, Kayla (29 January 2024). "Ambivert Vs. Omnivert". simplypsychology.org. Simply Scholar Ltd. --136.54.106.120 (talk) 16:08, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

OK, thanks! So, an ambivert is someone who's near the middle of the scale all the time, whereas an omnivert is someone who goes from full extrovert to full introvert and everything in between? 2601:646:8082:BA0:CD56:E11E:9CF:F450 (talk) 02:45, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Some researchers have questioned the validity of personality tests.^[3][4][5] I doubt that the validity of the specific labels ambivert and omnivert has been seriously studied; they may be pure pop-psych products. Also, even when valid, it can be questioned whether all this labeling isn't more harmful than beneficial.^[6]  --Lambiam 08:29, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

I hope you're not also questioning the validity of the labels extrovert and introvert, are you??? And if these are valid terms (which they are), then we also need a term for someone who's in the middle of the scale! 2601:646:8082:BA0:448D:8CB2:2FBC:B6C7 (talk) 23:19, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Do we also need a term to label people who are halfway between introvert and omnivert? One problem with these personality tests is that they do not depend on a person's actual behaviour, but on their self-reported interpretation of their self-imagined behaviour in hypothetical, vaguely described situations. Validity as a personality label requires IMO consistent reproducibility over time, not of such self-reports, but of actual behaviour in a context of actual situations. I don't expect this stuff will be able to hold itself up well against the scientific method.  --Lambiam 06:34, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Did you not read any part of this section other than your own comments??? First of all, as already explained above, the definition of omnivert is not that of someone occupying a certain position on the scale, but someone who fluctuates between extroversion and introversion, and hence there can be no "halfway" between omnivert and anything else! And as for the others, yes we do need specific terms for the far ends of the scale and also for the middle -- this is standard for any property which exists along a continuum! Also, I've personally taken both the ocean test and the MBTI test, and I can tell you, the situations described in the current versions are quite specific and mostly applicable to real life (at the very least, with the disclaimer that I'm one of the most pronounced introverts ever, I had no problems with the questions being "vague" or not applicable to me personally), so your criticism of these tests (at least in their current versions) is completely misplaced! And, as far as your demands for observation of "actual behaviour" (your emphasis, not mine), this would require a Big Brother-style system of constant and pervasive surveillance of your test subjects, which is completely impractical, highly illegal and unethical, and would itself introduce bias into your observations should your test subjects become aware of it (due to them modifying their own behavior to conform to perceived social norms out of fear of judgment) -- so, the stuff you propose wouldn't be able to hold itself up against the scientific method either (not to mention that it would most likely be disallowed on legal and ethical grounds)! 2601:646:8082:BA0:C178:97BE:AF93:9928 (talk) 09:41, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

You yourself wrote, "we also need a term for someone who's in the middle of the scale", i.e., between "the labels extrovert and introvert". This is what the term ambivert purports to signify. I responded to the claim of this need, wondering why there should be a need to label the extremes and one point in the middle, but not other points on the scale?  --Lambiam 20:12, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Because then all of the other points on the scale can be visualized and described in relation to these 3 points -- whereas if only the two extremes were labeled, then it would not adequately describe those who are close to the middle! 2601:646:8082:BA0:BC05:6EA8:F933:9E6D (talk) 11:07, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Not if they agree to it first, IP-hopper. As to this "omnivert" notion, it could be called "situational". Many people are more comfortable in certain settings than in other settings. That's "normal". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:49, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Maybe if they give fully informed consent it might be legal, but then you run into the other problem I mentioned (which you conveniently ignored) -- if they know they're being watched, they won't act like their normal selves (and the more you watch them, the more they'll put their guard up), so you won't see their "actual behaviour" in "actual situations", and you'll get skewed results! 2601:646:8082:BA0:28E6:4E7D:4BB4:DD49 (talk) 20:01, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

That would be tragic. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:51, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

That is just how people work -- and that is the reason why self-reporting of actual behavior is the best you can get in terms of data! 2601:646:8082:BA0:692F:1147:32D5:BCAA (talk) 01:54, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Cultural anthropologists study actual behaviour. They don't go around handing out questionnaires.  --Lambiam 07:03, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

This is in the realm of psychology, though, not anthropology (cultural or otherwise) -- which brings up yet a third problem with your proposed methodology, that merely observing the behavior of your test subjects will not reveal what's going on inside their head at the time, and thereby also give you inaccurate results! (For example, an introvert like me might be forced against his/her will to attend an office party and even to mingle with other people thereat (and even to feign cheerfulness while doing so), which your methodology will register as extroverted behavior and will simply not see how miserable it makes him/her -- or, just to cover both sides, an extrovert might be forced to spend time working or studying alone, which your methodology will register as introverted behavior and not see how much he/she hates it!) And you still haven't answered how you would counter the observer effect (which, in this scenario, would manifest itself on a very macroscopic scale due to the fact that, as I already said, many people simply won't act like their own natural selves when they know they're being watched all the time)! 2601:646:8082:BA0:BC05:6EA8:F933:9E6D (talk) 11:07, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

And also, I see a fourth problem with this kind of methodology, and that has to do with sample selection bias -- introverts are far less likely to volunteer for an experiment in which their actual behavior would be monitored, especially if this includes being monitored inside their own homes, and the more introverted a person is the more likely he/she would refuse to take part in such an experiment (as an introvert from the deepest end of the scale, I personally know I would refuse without thinking twice), so you'll get a sample which is skewed toward extroversion, and that would also give you inaccurate or incomplete results! (This, indeed, is one area in which the current methodology of anonymous self-reported personality tests with hypothetical questions about various social situations is superior to any other suggested here -- there is something inherently reassuring about knowing that only me and the machine see the actual personal responses, especially for an introvert like me -- and this makes it better in terms of reducing sample bias than even self-reporting of actual behavior, because the latter cannot easily be reduced to a machine-processable series of multiple-choice questions and would require short-answer questions to be interpreted by a human psychologist, and knowing that an actual human sees your individual responses and your identifying data is much harder to swallow, especially given that being judged by a psychologist might (sometimes) have real-world consequences!) 2601:646:8082:BA0:2D37:9C1D:9DB2:251E (talk) 13:36, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

May 10

Insect repellent

Do all pyrethrin analogs have broad-spectrum insect repellent properties in less-than-lethal concentrations? 2601:646:8082:BA0:CD56:E11E:9CF:F450 (talk) 01:56, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

It says here that "Before the emergence of resistance, an early hut trial in The Gambia concluded that permethrin was the most repellent pyrethroid, followed by λ-cyhalothrin, deltamethrin, and lastly cypermethrin". This suggests that there must be some in the list of 29 examples in the pyrethroid article that are much worse repellents. I would guess that the stronger the odor, the better the repellent effect. Abductive (reasoning) 08:38, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Pyrethroids were designed to kill insects and are used, for example, to control malaria-carrying mosquitoes by treating bed-nets. In this and other agricultural applications, repellence is an unwanted property particularly if the non-lethal effect allows insect populations to build up resistance. There are, of course, compounds designed to act only as insect repellents, of which the best known are probably DEET and citronellal. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:46, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! So, not all of them, but many of the common ones -- which is great for me (they're painting my front door today, so I have to enforce a no-fly zone outside it :-( ) And yes, last time I've personally witnessed the repellent effect of 200 ppm deltamethrin against Papilio multicaudata (or maybe it was a large P. rutulus, but my money is on the former) and P. eurymedon, as well as multiple Apocrita species! (The repellent effect, indeed, is what I'm looking for here -- I don't care if the bugs survive or die, I just don't want them to fly into the house or get anywhere near me!) 2601:646:8082:BA0:59E2:271:87C3:F3E (talk) 14:07, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Also, one of the two cans I used today had a mixture of prallethrin and cyfluthrin which was specifically formulated as an insect repellent, so we can add these two to the list as well -- although, from personal observation, their repellent effect was actually less than that of deltamethrin! 2601:646:8082:BA0:448D:8CB2:2FBC:B6C7 (talk) 00:12, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

May 12

ecological spray bottle

does anyone know if there are any glass or metal spray bottles with bioplastic triggers and straw available anywhere in existence? i really want to go plastic free for my succulent business ninosckasnaturals.com 2600:1700:9758:7D90:B406:C016:3BC0:D48B (talk) 06:05, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Maybe one of those old-fashioned perfume misters with the rubber squeeze bulb? I doubt very much that there is a mass-produced non-plastic alternative spray bottle apparatus. Abductive (reasoning) 21:49, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

There are pump-type plant misters (e.g. metal or glass). --136.54.106.120 (talk) 18:27, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

P.s.: LOOPSEED sells stainless steel plant mister spray bottles in various finishes, well-suited for succulents (search online for details). --136.54.106.120 (talk) 18:49, 13 May 2024 (UTC) -- [edit: 22:33, 13 May 2024 (UTC)]

origin of the formula for LC frequency

In electricity, properties known as inductance and capacitance together can resonate. The formula for the frequency of resonance is 1/(2*Pi*SQRT(L*C)). Who first published this formula? ```` Dionne Court (talk) 06:33, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Somewhat after Laplace 1800 and before Poincarre, 1899 with a strong suspicion that the ubiquitous Maxwell might have done it. Greglocock (talk) 06:57, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

According to LC_circuit#History it was the ubiquitous Lord Kelvin in 1853. --Wrongfilter (talk) 07:10, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. That man did everything. Greglocock (talk) 23:49, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

It does say that, but it is incorrect, which is why I posted here. Kelvin derived an equation to describe the transient response (response to a one-time shock excitation). However the article io LC_circuit#History gave as a reference an article in the Bell System Technical Journal, 1941, pages 415-453. I have now obtained this paper and it gives James Clerk Maxwell as the first to give the resonance formula (in a different but mathematically equivalent form), in a letter published in Philosphosical Magazine 1868. I will try and get this letter. ```` Dionne Court (talk) 03:13, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

It is this letter.  --Lambiam 12:14, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

It's from the right guy and via the correct other guy, but it has no math in it at all. It is not therefore the earliest statement of the resonance formula.

I'm looking for the fist statement of the formula as given in modern textbooks, i.e.,

f = 1/(2π(LC)^½).

It is a trivial exercise in algrbra to convert Maxwell's form into the standard modern form, but I would like to know when the modern form was first give. Dionne Court (talk) 00:29, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

The section entitled Mathematical Theory of the Experiment, an enclosure to the letter immediately following it on page 361, definitely contains some maths. On page 363 we see the equation ${\text{CL}}n^{2}=1,$ which results in an amplitude that, Maxwell writes, "is the greatest effect which can be produced with a given velocity". In this formula, the "velocity" $n$ is what is now more commonly denoted with the Greek letter $\omega .$  --Lambiam 06:49, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

p 540 onwards in Mathematical and Physical Papers, Volume 1 William Thomson Baron Kelvin University Press, 1882 - Mathematics - 619 pages, which is in google books, certainly discusses oscillatory behavior and time between peaks but I don't think it explicitly states f=1/(2pi*sqrt(L*C)). Particularly equation 7 where his A is modern L. Greglocock (talk) 00:08, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

May 14

Cranial size and Pb poisoning

Hello, can lead poisoning affect cranial size?Rich (talk) 05:43, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes.^{[7] [8] [9]} --136.54.106.120 (talk) 11:40, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

May 15

They see me rollin', they hatin...

Question for you guys. Is there any animal whose primary method of locomotion is curling into a ball and rolling head over heels to get around? Rather than running or walking. Because I think some woodlice do it (faster for them to roll then run), but I'm not 100% sure. Iloveparrots (talk) 03:04, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Do fictional animals count? --136.54.106.120 (talk) 03:33, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Terrestrial locomotion #Rolling may be of interest. --136.54.106.120 (talk) 03:38, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't see how that could ever be a primary means of locomotion, but see also Category:Rolling animals. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:37, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Hedgehogs do it to escape from predators when threatened. 2601:646:8082:BA0:BC05:6EA8:F933:9E6D (talk) 10:43, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Hedgehogs roll up for protection, not for locomotion. (Ditto for the woodlice mentioned by the OP). Iapetus (talk) 11:57, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't think I've ever seen a hedgehog roll outside of a video game. But then again, I've only ever seen hedgehogs in real life about three times. Iloveparrots (talk) 22:58, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Hedgehogs do not purposely roll when in a defensive ball. They "huff", which makes them bounce, forcing their quills into whatever is attacking them. That bounce could cause a roll, but it isn't on purpose. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 13:40, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

See Rotating locomotion in living systems. 2605:B100:34D:46C3:61A4:6B17:A082:3780 (talk) 12:27, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I have encountered assertions that Giant pandas, when sitting in a bamboo thicket on a slope, will sometimes roll a short distance rather than get up and walk, but this would need confirmation from a reliable source, and in any case would not be a primary means of locomotion. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.173 (talk) 19:48, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

A giant panda is rolling head first in this video: Panda Discovers Something Interesting. They roll about a lot too, for various reasons. Modocc (talk) 23:30, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

What's the max depth of the Baltic, Black and Azov brim?

The depth where it stops being connected to the World Ocean 50% of the time (connected only by seepage through porous solids like silt not counting as connected). As the brim can erode, shift if the water's removed, be a V-notch in a ridge etc and even if it's dredged wide, straight and flat it might not be legal to lightly touch the silt so this might not round to the same number of feet as the deepest draft ship that's allowed at least 50% of the Metonic cycle, or how much sea level would have to drop to make it a lake 50% of the time. Also what would the depth be if the strait bottom wasn't landscaped? The Turkish Straits are pretty deep by ship standards maybe they aren't landscaped? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:05, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

They wouldn't need to be "landscaped", the Bosphorous is typically about 60 m deep with a 40 m sill towards its southern end, although the Asian side of the strait at that point is somewhat shallower (about 27 m) - see Siddall et al. (2004). Mikenorton (talk) 19:11, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Right I didn't think they would. Unless the depth of the rim's now artificial by more than a foot due to sinking accidents(s), full or partial intentional blockages or explosion(s) (possibly to clear some of the previous)? Or maybe it's still the natural rock or sediment accumulation-erosion surface? I don't know if the Baltic and Azov brim are unaffected by human landscaping. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:16, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

May 17

What would cause these 'dark area' blemishes on an LCD monitor?

See this photo: https://ibb.co/mz8vQh0

This is my Asus Designo MX25AQ main monitor, I've had it for a little over four years and two months now. Since about a year ago, it started developing this issue where a "wavy" area of darkness appears near the left and right edges of the screen. It looks as if there's liquid in the screen or if something's "delaminating" inside. It would usually happen when it's cold, and would go away / "fade away" as it warmed up (usually taking a few minutes). However, over the last few months, it's been getting worse and worse. Nowadays, sometimes it's visible on certain shades of colours even when the monitor is fully warmed up. It is especially noticeable when it cools down in real life (e.g. it's becoming dawn and the brightness has been decreased).

The "grey uniformity" of the monitor has been degrading a bit as well, I swear.

I know I likely won't be able to fix an issue like this with the LCD panel. But my question is, what would possibly cause these issues? Could it develop into a stage where my LCD becomes completely / severely broken?

Note that I'm posting this to RD/S and not RD/C because I strongly believe this issue has something to do with materials degradation in the LCD and not some issue with the computer or cable, so I figured this is a better place for that.

Apologies for the non-free external image site upload, but if everything you see in the photo is not copyrighted then I will upload it to Commons. — AP 499D25 (talk) 05:03, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

I Googled around, and it could be moisture infiltrating around the edges. The fact that it clears when hot is suggestive of that. There was a suggestion that if the monitor is near a kitchen, these stains could include cooking fumes. Another possibility (and conceivably related) is damage from pulling the protective plastic sheet off, the one that came when the monitor was newly purchased. This has to be done extremely carefully. Yet another worry is cleaning with rubbing alcohol, the internet says this is a bad idea. Abductive (reasoning) 06:11, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Rubbing alcohol as sold can consist for up to 50% of water.  --Lambiam 09:16, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

That sounds plausible! Thinking about it, more than a year ago I did clean my monitor using a wet microfibre cloth (a small, thin one for phones), and that seems to be the timepoint it all started. Worth pointing out that this monitor is in a bedroom, so it's not near moisture or oil vapour sources, and it has never been used in such an environment. When I got it new, there wasn't actually a protective sticky film on the front, just a styrofoam wrap. When I slid that wrap off, I got a nice big static shock when I touched the monitor bezel, but that didn't seem to do any immediate damage – this monitor was fine for the first 2.5 years or so that I used it.

Another interesting fact about this monitor is that although I bought it in Mar 2020, according to the info label, it has an manufacture date of Sep 2015, so that means it sat in a warehouse for 4.5 years before I bought it I guess.

Aside from this annoying and distracting issue, this monitor is the best quality display I've ever had (QHD resolution and 100% sRGB accuracy), so it'd be such a shame if it's actually dying on me. — AP 499D25 (talk) 08:06, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Is there any scientific truth to the meme that Vegetable oil/Seed oil is toxic to the human body?

There are plenty of memes that seed oil causes diabetes and heart attacks but I failed to find any wikipedia articles that argues their case. Is there any scientific truth to the meme that Vegetable oil/Seed oil is toxic/harmful to the human body?

Another question is that if the meme of harmful seed oil is unscientific then why isn't this meme documented in the List_of_conspiracy_theories wiki page? 2001:8003:429D:4100:A593:8A5B:182E:5551 (talk) 15:55, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Any kind of fats or oils in excess can cause heart disease, but there is no truth to the claim that vegetable oil is more toxic than animal fats (in fact, it's actually healthier) or that its consumption in moderation causes any health problems. 2601:646:8082:BA0:9480:50AE:ABF3:5E17 (talk) 23:30, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, there is truth to it. Our nutrition articles could do with some updating and balance. It is a prime example of Paracelsus's The dose makes the poison, for both the omega 6 LA and omega 3 ALA are essential nutrients for humans. The basic issue is consumption of a high quantity of omega-6 fatty acids from modern seed oils (which have only been consumed for a century or so) and other sources, including indirectly through animal feed and the (relative) paucity of omega-3 fatty acids in the modern human diet. [Excessive omega-3 over omega-6 has been found only in Greenlandic Inuit traditional communities.] Probably the best book to start with is Anthony John Hulbert's recent Omega Balance: Nutritional Power for a Happier, Healthier Life- Johns Hopkins (2022). By omega balance, he means the percentage of omega 3's in the sum of omega 3's and 6's. He says:

Although there is no advice about separate consumption of omega-3 and omega-6 fats in these national dietary guidelines, this is not the case with the premier scientific society concerning lipid research. In 2004, ISSFAL (International Society for the Study of Fatty Acids and Lipids) issued a series of recommendations for dietary intake of the essential fats by healthy adults. They made no comment about consumption of the nonessential saturated and monounsaturated fats but instead proposed that adequate intake of 18:2ω-6 [ Linoleic acid (LA) ] is 2 percent of energy, and a healthy intake of 18:3ω-3 [ α-linolenic acid (ALA) ] is 0.7 percent of energy as well as recommending a minimum intake of 500mg/d of 20:5ω-3 [ eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA)] and 22:6ω-6 [sic, should be 22:6ω-3 docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) as in the source [10]]. These ISSFAL recommendations for daily intake correspond to a diet omega balance of about 30 percent. The recommended intakes contrast markedly with the average actual daily intakes by the US population (from a 1999–2000 survey), which correspond to a diet omega balance of 9 percent. Similarly, a dietary survey of the Australian population revealed the average daily intake in 1995 corresponded to a diet omega balance of 11 percent. Both the United States and Australia (and likely many other developed high-income countries) have omega-6 intakes much higher and omega-3 intakes lower than the recommended levels.

Hulbert and other sources provide evidence that the omega imbalance can have deleterious effects not only in various chronic diseases, but also that the excess of inflammatory omega-6's can worsen outcomes of Covid, where many deaths appear to come from an excessive inflammatory response.John Z (talk)

μ-Oxidodihydrogen, a chemical compound found in industrially processed canned soup, is also known to be toxic to the human body. Why is no one talking about this?  --Lambiam 09:10, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Butterfly size

Do butterflies (especially nymphalids and/or swallowtails) become significantly smaller in size near the poleward (high-latitude) limit of their natural range? When I visited the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto, they had 2 pinned specimens of Papilio cresphontes on display which were much smaller than their normal size per the article (one had a wingspan of "only" 3 inches -- I did a rough measurement with my fingers against the glass -- and the other was about 1/2 inch bigger) -- is this normal for (1) specifically P. cresphontes, (2) all swallowtails, and/or (3) all or most butterfly species? 2601:646:8082:BA0:9480:50AE:ABF3:5E17 (talk) 23:38, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Size Distributions of Butterfly Species and the Effect of Latitude on Species Sizes (you can open a free JSTOR account or access through the Wikipedia Library). Alansplodge (talk) 10:10, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I won't click on any external links regarding this topic, just in case it might show me gratuitously enlarged pictures of P. multicaudata or some suchlike abomination -- can you just tell me the gist of it in a few words (or more than a few, your choice)? 2601:646:8082:BA0:E558:16C8:D2DE:51EF (talk) 10:31, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

There are no pictures, it's a scientific paper. "For butterfly species (Papilionoidea) of the Australian and Afrotropical regions, average wingspan decreases with increasing latitude". Alansplodge (talk) 10:34, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! So the answer is yes -- right? (And that would explain the unusually small size of the two P. cresphontes specimens at the museum -- they must have been caught locally, and Toronto is near the northern limit of this species' natural range! And that is also quite reassuring for me -- it means that in Portland, Maine where I've been planning to move for quite a while, any P. cresphontes I come across won't be scary huge, in fact I might actually come to like them!) 2601:646:8082:BA0:E55E:2854:FEDE:FEB6 (talk) 21:21, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

May 18

Why packaging is important

Two reasons why packaging is important PhuPhumzile (talk) 07:10, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Please do your own homework.

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:16, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

• Read our article on "Packaging". It may assist you. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:40, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Ya gotta love it when a poster doesn't even try to make it look like a question they thought of on their own. Or like a question, even. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:23, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

One reason: By packaging your homework question to make it look as if it is curiosity-driven, you have a much better chance of getting a useful answer.  --Lambiam 14:41, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Why packaging is important: try buying loose helium by weight. Or by the handful. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:30, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

May 5

Origin of notion that there are ב sub 2 many "curves"

(Sorry for awkward heading -- I couldn't get it to put the ב before the 2 because of some strange artifact of RTL rendering.)

I've seen in several places the claim that, as there are $\aleph _{0}$ natural numbers and ${\mathfrak {c}}=2^{\aleph _{0}}$ (sometimes improperly given as $\aleph _{1}$) real numbers, there are some greater number of "curves" (sometimes given as f or, again improperly, $\aleph _{2}$). Most recently I was reminded of it at our article on George Gamow's (generally excellent) book One Two Three... Infinity.

The usual complaint about these popularizations, a very valid one, is that they uncritically give these cardinalities as aleph numbers in a way that works only if the generalized continuum hypothesis holds. But there's another, quite serious, problem: The claim that there are more "curves" than real numbers is correct only if you have an extremely liberal notion of what constitutes a "curve".

One reasonable notion is that a "curve" is the image of the real line or the unit interval under a continuous function from the reals to Rⁿ (or similar space), but there are only $2^{\aleph _{0}}$ such functions, and therefore the same number of curves.

My best guess is that someone was taking "curve" to mean the graph of an arbitrary function. But these are not typically curves according to any obvious natural-language meaning; they're just scattered points in the plane.

So, question, what's my question? Does anyone know where this idea originated? Was it Gamow, some other popularizer, multiple sources? And what if anything should we do to clean up the text in our One Two Three... Infinity article? I'm thinking an explanatory footnote but ideally I'd want a source directly speaking to the misconception. --Trovatore (talk) 20:58, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

This Math Stack exchange entry is relevant, but it doesn't seem to cover what you're asking. One problem is that the statement is true by Wikipedia standards; you could cite the book. You would need a reliable source, such as a published article somewhere, to say it was wrong/vague/misleading in order to state that in our article. At the moment the article points out that you'd need the GCH to say what's in the book, but I guess that's supposed to be "common knowledge" (at least among mathies). — Preceding unsigned comment added by RDBury (talk • contribs) 23:49, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

This article aims to classify various subsets of the function space 𝐹(ℝ,ℝ) from a constructive-mathematics perspective. The Introduction states: "mathematicians have made numerous attempts to focus on special subsets of this vast vector space (e.g., all real-valued continuous functions [5])", where the cited text is:

Pugh, C.C. Real Mathematical Analysis, 1st ed.; Undergraduate texts in mathematics; Springer Science Business Media: New York, NY, USA, 2002; pp. 223–225.

The latter is available as a pdf here. The article itself denotes this subset as 𝐶(ℝ,ℝ) and concludes in Proposition 4 that 𝐶𝑎𝑟𝑑(𝐶(ℝ,ℝ)) = 𝑐. But this is of course outside the paradise that Cantor created for you.  --Lambiam 07:09, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

The reply given by a fellow Wikipedian to another Math Stack exchange question appears to imply that this also holds within the paradise.  --Lambiam 07:23, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Cardinality of the continuum § Sets with cardinality of the continuum also lists, without citation, "the set of all continuous functions from $\mathbb {R}$ to $\mathbb {R}$".  --Lambiam 07:30, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Discussed at Stack Exchange. Basically it's because a continuous function from $\mathbb {R}$ to $\mathbb {R}$ is uniquely determined by its values at rational points. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 16:11, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I feel a bit of sympathy for him making those mistakes but he should have had a mathematician read through that chapter. NadVolum (talk) 16:40, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Well, it's kind of the publisher's job to do fact checking. The statement was still in the 2012 Dover edition, so there have been multiple chances to fact check since the original 1947 publication. --RDBury (talk) 19:12, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

In general I'm skeptical of active attempts to use Wikipedia to correct readers' mathematical misconceptions — too much like righting great wrongs, and can easily become a POV magnet (like the old "What mathematics is not" section that once appeared in our mathematics article).

This one irks me, though, and tempts me to go back on that reasoning. I guess it's slightly personal, because I had internalized this bit about the cardinality of the set of curves, and (embarrassingly) didn't get it corrected till grad school. I had figured out for myself that there were only continuum-many analytic functions, because they're determined by the coefficients of the power series, but I conjectured that there were 2^𝔠 many C^∞ functions, and someone had to set me straight on that.

I think it's not just Gamow (whose book, I want to re-emphasize, is a big net positive). I've been trying to remember where else I might have seen it. I thumbed through Lilian Lieber's Infinity (which is a book that heavily influenced me) and didn't find it there. --Trovatore (talk) 20:00, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Just a guess, but the article mentions "What is Mathematics?" by Richard Courant and R. Robbins as a source, and of all the sources it seems the most mathematical. It's a "Text to borrow" on Internet Archive so if you create an account you can view it for free. --RDBury (talk) 10:42, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

There is a parallel in the treatment of cardinal numbers between Gamow and Courant & Robbins up to the point where the latter write (p. 85): "A similar argument shows that the cardinal number of the points in a cube is no greater than the cardinal number of the segment." After that, they muse briefly on the fact that this is counterintuitive since the correspondence does not preserve dimension, but that this is possible because it is not continuous. That ends their treatment of cardinal numbers. Earlier they note (p. 84): "As a matter of fact, Cantor actually showed how to construct a whole sequence of infinite sets with greater and greater cardinal numbers." They even sketch the proof, but do not pursue the question of mathematical objects of higher cardinality than the continuum that are of interest by themselves.  --Lambiam 13:21, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Digression: In fact it's challenging to come up with an object of larger cardinality that might naturally be considered by non-set-theorists. One possibility is βN, the Stone–Čech compactification of the natural numbers. I believe this is mentioned in an exercise in Folland's Real Analysis. --Trovatore (talk) 18:53, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

There's a relevant MathOverflow question about finding cardinalities beyond that of the continuum outside set theory. βN is given as an answer, but maybe the most elementary one offered is the set of all field automorphisms of C. But the answers do kind of make me agree with Gamow's surely intended point that it's difficult to find natural objects of size beyond 2^c, though not with his actual assertion. :) Double sharp (talk) 15:21, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

May 6

Find

Given x=3+2√2, find √x - 1/√x 171.79.74.205 (talk) 17:01, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

the contradictory part is that in the end, you get (√x-1/√x)^2 = 4, which will give you ±2; but √x which is √3+2√2 can be written as √(2-√1)^2 which is 2-√1 hence √x - 1/√x = -2 171.79.74.205 (talk) 17:10, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

"... can be written ... ". No, it can't. Not sure if this is an honest question or just trolling. --RDBury (talk) 18:43, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure what they that is about but can I suggest that 1/(a+√b) = (a-√b)/{(a+√b)(a-√b)} might help? NadVolum (talk) 20:33, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Clarify, please. Do you mean:

• √x - (1/√x)
• (√x - 1)/√x
• √(x - 1)/√x
• something else...?

I'd suggest using LaTeX/MathJax code within <math>...</math> tags to format the expressions like ${\frac {{\sqrt {x}}-1}{\sqrt {x}}}$ etc. Please see WP:MATH for more info. --CiaPan (talk) 10:12, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Sorry I misread the question and answered the wrong thing. But the square root of 3+2√2 is plus or minus 1+√2 and the original answer of ±2 is correct. NadVolum (talk) 11:07, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

√x is usually taken to mean the positive square root when x is positive. At least that's the notation used in Square root. That would make the answer 2. --RDBury (talk) 16:58, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Only if you say the square root, and nobody has said that. It also doesn't matter whether the original √2 is positive or negative. NadVolum (talk) 17:07, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

The issue here is not a lack of the definite article, but the meaning of the symbol ${\sqrt {^{~}}}.$ Conventionally, when $a$ is a real number, ${\sqrt {a^{2}}}$ denotes the same as $|a|,$ so ${\sqrt {2}}$ is definitely positive.  --Lambiam 18:15, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

The answer is 2 if the meaning of "√x−1/√x" is (√x) − (1/√x). But note that the question uses "√3+2√2" with the meaning √3 + 2√2.  --Lambiam 18:25, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Is this a homework problem? GalacticShoe (talk) 16:05, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Possibly but they tried to check their solution. NadVolum (talk) 16:58, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

May 8

What is the term for...

What is a proper term for an ordered set of values {a, b, c}, where each value can be independently selected from an allowed set for that value. Each allowed set may be different (but need not be distinct). For example:

• a from {a₁, a₂, a₃}
• b from {b₁, b₂}
• c from {c₁, c₂, c₃, c₄}

The set {a, b, c} could then have any of 24 possible values.

A more concrete example would be all upper/lower/mixed case variations of the word "dog" - "dog", "doG", "dOg", "dOG", "Dog", ....

I saw this called a permutation, which I'm pretty sure is not correct. I was thinking combination, but this doesn't quite seem to match the definition. Is there some standard term that is a good fit for this? Tom N talk/contrib 20:21, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

See Cartesian product. --Trovatore (talk) 20:33, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Come to think of it, though, the direct answer to your question would not be "Cartesian product" but rather "element of the Cartesian product". I don't know that there's a snappy one-word term for this. --Trovatore (talk) 20:42, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree with Trovatore's answer. If we call A = {a₁, a₂, a₃}, B = {b₁, b₂}, and C = {c₁, c₂, c₃, c₄} the three sets in your example, then the ordered sets {a, b, c} that you are describing in your question are the elements of the set A×B×C : the cartesian product of A, B, and C. This set is precisely the set of such ordered sets.

On the other hand, a permutation of a set is, intuitively, a "shuffling" of this set. If you consider the set of cards in a 52 cards deck, this gives a good intuition. A combination of those cards would just be a subset of the whole deck, i.e. any number of cards drawn from the deck, without any regard for the order. So the whole diamonds suit is a combination of cards from the deck. So would the unordered set {3 of clubs, 10 of hearts, queen of spades}. Tommpouce (talk) 17:23, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Collatz Conjecture

From time to time I noodle around the Collatz conjecture, in an attempt to bring my "special insight" into an apparently simple question that has stumped the best and the brightest. Most of the work I've seen seems to be based on trying to find a counter-example, which would render the conjecture null and void. They've tested every number up to some ridiculous number of trillions, so far without any luck, but they take the view, quite rightly, that a giga-zillion examples do not prove the general proposition, and the elusive counter-example could be just round the corner, so they keep searching, and trying new ways to attack the problem.

I've never seen any work that started at the opposite end: the number 1. That is, take 1, and ask "What could produce 1?": Answer: only 2. Repeat. This results in the series 1, 2, 4, 8, 16. Then it starts getting interesting, because 16 could be derived from either 5 or 32. (Being odd, 5 produces 16, because 3*5+1 = 16; and being even, 32 produces 16, because 32/2=16.) Then 5 and 32 can be investigated separately, and so on. The tree quickly sprouts new branches and it just gets more bushy the further we go.

The question in my mind is: Can it be shown that every integer must belong to this tree? If so, would that not prove the Conjecture? Or, if it could be shown that not all numbers are captured, even if we could not identify any specific examples, would that not disprove it?

Yours simplistically, Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:51, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Nice way of re-thinking the problem! I agree that if you could prove that the tree hits every positive integer, or that it doesn't, then you've solved the problem. I seriously doubt that it hasn't been tried, but it's a good example of things to try. --Trovatore (talk) 23:07, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

The specific approach is mentioned in Collatz conjecture § In reverse, which also has a diagram of the first 21 layers of the tree. A more parsimonious representation is achieved by considering that it suffices to show that all odd positive integers are reached. The onset of the odd tree is shown in the very first image in the article; a more extensive one, not shown in the article, is found here  --Lambiam 05:41, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Well, there you go. Thanks, Lambiam. (At least I should be given credit as the independent co-discoverer of this idea.) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 07:46, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Here's another exploration of the Collatz tree. Double sharp (talk) 11:27, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Problem: Give positive integer n, how many natural density of positive integers reach n in their Collatz (3x+1) sequence? Of course, for n = 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, the natural density is 100%, but for n = 32 and 5, what will be the answers? For n divisible by 3, the answer is 0%, since only numbers of the form n*2^k reach n, and I think that the answer for 13 and 80 (which are the two numbers before 40) should be equal. 2402:7500:942:8E8F:A4D8:9B73:8E52:1E7B (talk) 07:47, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

You can eliminate this by calculate (for example) all positive integers <= 2^16 = 65536, how many positive integers reach 32 (or 5, or 13, or 80)? 2402:7500:900:DEEB:B513:C07E:8EF3:8275 (talk) 04:15, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

May 10

About abundance and abundancy

Let s(n) = (sequence A001065 in the OEIS)(n) = sigma(n)-n = sum of divisors of n that are less than n

1. Give integer k, should there be infinitely many positive integers n such that s(n)-n = k?
2. Give positive rational number k, should there be infinitely many positive integers n such that s(n)/n = k?

2402:7500:942:8E8F:A4D8:9B73:8E52:1E7B (talk) 07:41, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

The answer to 1. is no. If a number has is composite, then it is completely determined by its set of proper divisors (in particular, it is the product of the smallest prime factor and the largest proper divisor.) By definition $s(n)-n=m$ if and only if there is a partition of $m$ into unique numbers such that the elements of the partition are precisely the proper divisors of $n$. There are a finite amount of possible partitions of $m$, and thus a finite number of partitions which produce the proper divisors of some number $n$, and as long as the partitions in question are not just the set $\{1\}$ (i.e. the partition produced by primes), all such partitions/sets of proper divisors completely determine some unique $n$. Thus for $k\neq 1$ there are a finite number of $n$ satisfying $s(n)-n=m$. GalacticShoe (talk) 17:28, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

The smallest values of $n$ such that $s(n)-n=m$ are given in OEIS: A070015, while the largest values of $n$ such that $s(n)-n=m$ are given in OEIS: A135244. GalacticShoe (talk) 17:32, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Well, I meant s(n)-n = sigma(n)-2*n, not sigma(n) - n (which is s(n) itself), s(n) is (sequence A001065 in the OEIS), while sigma(n) is (sequence A000203 in the OEIS), they are different functions. 2402:7500:900:DEEB:B513:C07E:8EF3:8275 (talk) 04:09, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

See OEIS:A033880. GalacticShoe (talk) 18:45, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Well, so should there be infinitely many such positive integers n? 49.217.136.82 (talk) 07:42, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately I have no idea, you're gonna have to check the sources in that OEIS listing. GalacticShoe (talk) 08:38, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

May 11

Dirac delta function

The Dirac delta is a notorious real-valued "function" that is infinite at x=0 and zero everywhere else. In real analysis it is treated as a generalized function (Schwartz distribution). Disclosure, I don't know what those really are, but their construction involves bump functions, which are continuously differentiable at all orders but are zero outside of a region.

In the complex plane of course, any continuously differentiable function is analytic so it must be either constant or unbounded, amirite? So there are no complex bump functions with those properties.

So, is there a complex version of the Dirac delta, and how is it mathematically "handled"? Thanks. 2602:243:2008:8BB0:F494:276C:D59A:C992 (talk) 00:03, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

The second illustration in the Dirac delta article shows it as the limit of sequence of zero-centered normal distributions, which do not have compact support; this works as well for most applications. So bump functions are not essential. Nevertheless, I don't think this will help in attempting to define a complex version.  --Lambiam 06:41, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Actually a more fundamental question: are Fourier series and Fourier transforms important in complex analysis? This is where the delta function comes up in the real case, more or less. 2602:243:2008:8BB0:F494:276C:D59A:C992 (talk) 08:02, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

The theory of Fourier series was developed well before Dirac came up with his delta function. It only plays a role in the theory of the Fourier transform for a purely periodic signal, not perturbed by any noise, something not found in actual practical applications. Even then, the delta function simplifies the presentation, but can be avoided using a mixed representation. I don't see how any of this can be generalized to deal with functions on the complex domain.  --Lambiam 16:26, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

May 13

Prediction of analogous spatial distributions

Hi guys,

I wish to do a specific GIS/spatial analysis task and I suspect I'm using the wrong search terms in my attempts to figure out existing approaches and tools. Here's what I'm trying to do:

I have a raster data set describing the spatial distribution of a metric in the summer of year X (X1) as well as in the spring (X2). I further have data for the distribution of the same metric in summer only of year Y (Y1). I now want to extrapolate summer raster data of Y1 to Y2. To this end, I want to fit a model to the relationship X1 <-> X2 and then use this model for the prediction Y1 -> Y2. A number of spatial and temporal covariates are available.

I'm guessing that what I'm looking at here would be spatial regression followed by prediction. For the "predict distribution from spatial model" bit, it seems that some flavour of kriging would be suitable, but what I first need is essentially a model describing the transition between two distributions of the same metric (not the spatial relationship of one metric to another in the same space) - seems like a different problem? - To be implemented in QGIS and/or R, if any tool-specific recommendations come to mind.

Cheers! --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 12:08, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

When you make a scatter plot between the X1 and X2 data, do the points seem to lie on a curve with not too much noise? And are the extreme Y1 values not far outside the range of the X1 values? If so, you can simply try curve fitting with a low-degree polynomial and use the curve to read off plausible estimates for the Y2 values. The spatial aspect is then actually irrelevant. It may be relevant for smoothing the observed values before doing anything else. See if this helps with getting a clearer curve. If the metric is necessarily positive, it may further be helpful not to use X1 and X2 directly but to plot instead log(X2) against log(X1). Kriging only plays a role if the summer raster of the years is not the same.  --Lambiam 13:09, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

@Lambiam: sorry for the late response. Thank you, that was helpful! Unfortunately, plotting my data that way showed that the spatial correlation seems to be highly important, as the distribution scatters very widely even with various transformations. Based on what I have read in the meantime, I think a geographically weighted spatial regression is the way to go, if I can get good enough coverage out of my covariates. The prediction bit is going to be interesting since implementations in QGIS seem to be focused on fitting and analysis only, so will have to fully take it to R. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 11:51, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Calculus question

Hello there, I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask a calculus question seeming the activity here is quite slim.

A cylindrical tank with a radius of 5 meters is being filled with water at a rate of 3 cubic meters per minute. The tank initially contains 10 cubic meters of water.

1. Write an expression for the volume of water in the tank as a function of time t in minutes.
2. Determine the rate at which the water level is rising in the tank when the depth of the water is 2 meters.
3. At what rate is the water level rising when the tank is half full?

Im lost on the second on here, someone help? GoodHue291 (talk) 22:55, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Is the the axis of the cylinder horizontal? If so, then more information is needed, such as the length of the tank. catslash (talk) 23:20, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, as presented this question is problematic, since for a horizontal axis you need the length, which isn't given, but for a vertical axis the rate, height, pretty much everything is linear. GalacticShoe (talk) 01:28, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Please do your own homework.

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. - Arjayay (talk) 09:01, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

I put this question here so people can guide me to solving it, they're not going to do it for me. GoodHue291 (talk) 20:32, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Didn't the reply by 2A01 give you good guidance? What was the expression you found for question 1?  --Lambiam 13:58, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

"The rate at which X is changing" means "the derivative of X with respect to time" where "X" in this case is "the water level". So first you're going to need to find an expression for the water level as a function of time L = f(t) and then work out the derivative of that function to get dL/dt = f'(t). You're also going to need to know the time t at which to evaluate f' which, assuming you know how to convert volume to water level, you can work out using the expression you found in part one. 2A01:E0A:D60:3500:61F0:5F9A:48A:C8D6 (talk) 09:32, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

May 14

Worst case performance of a randomized primality test?

I am trying to get a idea about how efficient something like this might be. Let's say we have a number N composed of B binary bits, and we now want to generate a "certificate of primality" using the following method: First we choose a "confidence" parameter C which indicates the degree of statistical certainty desired. Then, (1) Select a random number R < N. (2) Take the GCD of N with R; if it is not 1 then N is composite, otherwise we consider R to be a "witness" of N's (possible) primality. (3) Repeat until the level of confidence reaches C. Only question is, how to determine the number of iterations needed until C is satisfied? Earl of Arundel (talk) 16:39, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

That is usually what is done and its a good way to do it - but it can fall foul of problems like Pseudoprimes. so a better test is done tham the straightforward Fermat's little theorem test. See also AKS primality test for why a full test isn't normally done. The probabalistic tests linked from there give an estimate of their effectiveness - which is very good indeed. NadVolum (talk) 17:29, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes of course, I am currently using the Miller-Rabin primality test which does exhibit a very good "average performance". However my question was more along the lines of "how much less efficient would it be to do randomized GCD tests instead"? Because surely even *that* would produce a bona fide "certificate of confidence" (albeit perhaps much slower than otherwise). Now I do know that the probability of any two random variables being comprime is $6/\pi ^{2}$, I just can't seem to figure out how to "interpolate" that into a reliable (if inefficient) probabalistic test. Earl of Arundel (talk) 18:16, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

If the number submitted to the famous EoA primality test may have been selected by an adversary, it can be the product of two almost equal primes. The probability that a single random test detects its non-primality is then about $2/{\sqrt {N}}.$ This means that you need about ${\frac {1}{2}}{\sqrt {N}}\log {\frac {1}{p}}$ independent random GCD tests before you can assert with confidence $1-p$ that the number is prime. For example, for $N=9875191871$ you need some 228,818 random tests to achieve a 99% confidence level. Straightforward primality testing by trying successive odd numbers as divisors while skipping multiples of $3$ requires ${\frac {1}{3}}{\sqrt {N}}$ trial divisions, for the example 33,124.  --Lambiam 19:29, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Wow, so not even close to being nearly as efficient as the humble trial division algorithm. (I don't know why that surprises me, it is more or less a "scatter-shot" approach to primality testing.) Of course Miller-Rabin blows both of those out of the water. Not only is the required number of iterations relatively low, the best-case performance WRT detecting composites is typically excellent. (I think it even outperforms AKS on average.) Very elegant formulation of the lower-bound there, by the way. I wouldn't have thought it could be reckoned so precisely. Kudos! Earl of Arundel (talk) 20:26, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

One reason some primality tests run more efficiently is that they only tell you what you want to know, is the number a prime? If you want to know more than that, a factor if it's composite, that will take longer; you're factoring the number instead of just showing that it's composite. A GCD test would produce a factor so it's bound to be less efficient. (Of course, someone could come up with a factorization algorithm that's as fast as the fastest primality test, but that hasn't happened so far, and that's why non-factoring primality tests still have a niche.) --RDBury (talk) 03:58, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

May 15

How many such binary operations exist in a set with n elements?

There are four possible properties for a binary operation:

1. Idempotence
2. Commutative property
3. Associative property
4. Cancellation property

So, in a set with n elements, how many such binary operations (which are closed) exist?

1. Satisfy property 1
2. Satisfy property 2
3. Satisfy property 3
4. Satisfy property 4
5. Satisfy properties 1 and 2 simultaneously
6. Satisfy properties 1 and 3 simultaneously
7. Satisfy properties 1 and 4 simultaneously
8. Satisfy properties 2 and 3 simultaneously
9. Satisfy properties 2 and 4 simultaneously
10. Satisfy properties 3 and 4 simultaneously
11. Satisfy properties 1, 2, and 3 simultaneously
12. Satisfy properties 1, 2, and 4 simultaneously
13. Satisfy properties 1, 3, and 4 simultaneously
14. Satisfy properties 2, 3, and 4 simultaneously
15. Satisfy all four properties simultaneously

2402:7500:92D:FD81:F115:AC09:9228:B1A8 (talk) 10:58, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

• Case 1, just idempotence, is easy. A binary operation on a set of $n$ elements (a finite magma) can be completely described by the $n^{2}$ entries of the $n\times n$ operation table. Idempotence fixes the $n$ entries on the diagonal. For each of the remaining $n(n-1)$ entries there are $n$ choices, so there are $n^{n(n-1)}$ distinct tables.
• Case 2, just commutativity, is also easy. The $n$ entries on the diagonal can be chosen freely, as can the ${\tfrac {1}{2}}n(n-1)$ entries of the triangle below the diagonal; the upper triangle is thereby fixed. So the number equals $n^{{\frac {1}{2}}n(n+1)}.$
• For case 4, just cancellation, there is a one-to-one correspondence with the Latin squares of order $n$. See the section Number of $n\times n$ Latin squares.

There is no simple formula for this case, and I suppose also not for most, if not all, other cases. Some have been tabulated; for case 3, the number of finite semigroups, see OEIS: A023814.  --Lambiam 13:51, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

How about the cases 5 to 15? I found the OEIS sequences:

All binary operations (without any condition): (sequence A002489 in the OEIS) (labeled), (sequence A001329 in the OEIS) (isomorphism classes)

Case 1: (sequence A090588 in the OEIS) (labeled), (sequence A030247 in the OEIS) (isomorphism classes)

Case 2: (sequence A023813 in the OEIS) (labeled), (sequence A001425 in the OEIS) (isomorphism classes)

Case 3: (sequence A023814 in the OEIS) (labeled), (sequence A001423 in the OEIS) (isomorphism classes)

Case 4: (sequence A002860 in the OEIS) (labeled), (sequence A057991 in the OEIS) (isomorphism classes)

Case 8: (sequence A023815 in the OEIS) (labeled), (sequence A001426 in the OEIS) (isomorphism classes)

How about other cases? 49.217.196.102 (talk) 10:12, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Case 5 is A076113. Using the analysis method given above for cases 1 and 2, you should have been able to derive the formula yourself.  --Lambiam 10:48, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

@RDBury:@GalacticShoe: 220.132.230.56 (talk) 17:20, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Measuring Coefficient of Variation

I have a group of 39 subjects who evaluated 20 different answers to questions on a scale of 1 to 5. The mean is 2.13 and the Standard Deviation is 1.077. I want to say that there is a lot of variation in the answers. I asked ChatGPT and it said to compute the Coefficient of Variation which is: CV= 2.131.077 ×100% ≈ 50.47% It said that: "The interpretation of the coefficient of variation (CV) can vary depending on the context and the field of study. However, as a general guideline: Low variability: CV less than 15% Moderate variability: CV between 15% and 30% High variability: CV greater than 30%" Which seems to support my hypothesis which is that there is significant variation in the answers. That's also what a quick look at the data indicates. Haven't done statistics in decades so wanted to check with a human as well. Does this all sound reasonable? I want to say in an academic paper that there was considerable variation in our subjects as indicated by the CV being greater than 50% does that seem reasonable? MadScientistX11 (talk) 22:49, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Computing 1.077/2.13 yields 0.5056, not 0.5047 – but a precision of four digits, also for the SD, is excessive. If only one of the subjects, vacillating between 2 and 3, had picked the other choice, the SD would almost certainly have diverged from 1.077 already in the second digit after the decimal point.

Reporting the CV may be common practice, but is too often meaningless. Your subjects scored on a scale of 1 to 5, which is an arbitrary convention for Likert scales (see Likert scale § Scoring and analysis). If the scale had been labeled 0 to 4, the SD would remain the same, but the mean would have been 1 less, only 1.13. So computing the value of the CV would in that case have resulted in 1.077/1.13 = 0.9531.

Another commonly used measure is the index of dispersion, which is even more problematic for the distribution of scores using an arbitrary scale.

I'm not a social scientist, but, assuming that each of the five possible responses is a reasonable one, the dispersion does not appear that considerable to me. It is definitely less than the expected 1.41 if respondents had given uniformly random answers. If you show a histogram, readers can form their own assessments about how considerable the dispersion is.

A final word of advice. In reporting the statistics of research findings, avoid the terms "significance" and "significant" unless you definitely mean to refer to the technical notion of statistical significance.  --Lambiam 05:31, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Excellent. I've come to realize that these LLMs often sound very convincing but when you look into the details they often are incorrect. FYI: the survey is really a fairly minor part of the work we're doing so we didn't spend as much time as (with hindsight) we should have to set it up appropriately and think about the statistical analysis before hand. Based on what you said, I don't think it makes sense for us to talk about any statistics because the sample size was small and in this phase of the work it was just a trivial part. Thanks again. MadScientistX11 (talk) 17:05, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

May 16

What would a graph of integers vs the percent of the next 1000 integers that are non-tautologically figurate look like?

Counting polygonal numbers, centered polygonal numbers, Platonic solid numbers, centered Platonic solid numbers, regular pyramidal numbers, centered regular pyramidal numbers and sure why not maybe also the bipyramidal and prism analogs of those pyramids (with n copies of the nth k-gonal number stacked). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:04, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

100% of all integers are polygonal (in at least in 2 ways that I can think of from the top of my head) and therefore figurate numbers. Perhaps you meant integers that are figurate numbers in non-trivial ways. Dhrm77 (talk) 18:32, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Right, it'd have to be ones that are also figurate in non-trivial ways. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:44, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Denoting the function giving the fraction of non-trivial figurates by $f,$ we have $f(n)\sim n^{-{\frac {1}{2}}}$ as $n$ grows, but when $n$ gets very large, in the millions, the proportionality breaks down, There will be increasingly often no figurate numbers at all among the next 1000 integers; either $f(n)\geq 0.001$ or $f(n)=0.$  --Lambiam 05:06, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Truncated square tiling and lines through

I was looking at bathroom tile in Truncated square tiling. Am I correct that for a line passing through opposite vertices in one octagon, that it never passes through another vertex in the tiling? Naraht (talk) 21:06, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

This is one of those problems which is not hard to solve in theory, but it's so easy to make a mistake in calculation that the result shouldn't be trusted on the first attempt. But according to my calculations the line passing through two opposite corners of an octagon will pass through an additional two vertices. You can enumerate the vertices as ((1+√2)k+a,(1+√2)l+b) where (a,b) is one of:

(1/√2, 0), (0, 1/√2), (0, -1/√2), (-1/√2, 0).

The line through (0, 1/√2) and (1+1/√2, 1+√2) is given by y=(1+√2)(x-1/√2). There are four vertices which lie on this line, the (1/√2, 0) and (1+1/√2, 1+√2) we started with, plus (0, -1-1/√2) and (1+√2, 2+3/√2). You can easily verify that the points satisfy the equation of the line, and the values of k, l, a and b for the points are:

(1/√2, 0): k=0, l=0, a=1/√2, b=0

(1+1/√2, 1+√2): k=1, l=1, a=-1/√2, b=0

(0, -1-1/√2): k=0, l=-1, a=0, b=1/√2

(1+√2, 2+3/√2): k=1, l=2, a=0, b=-1/√2

You can prove these are the only four points. For a specific pair (a, b) the equation (1+√2)k+a=(1+√2)(1+√2)l+b-1/√2) is linear in k and l. But since √2 is irrational, you can set coefficients of 1 and √2 equal to each other and obtain two equations in two unknowns. This is a non-degenerate system in this case and so the solution is unique. (For vertical, horizontal and diagonal lines, i.e. m=±1, the system is degenerate and so there will be either no solutions or an infinite number.) --RDBury (talk) 01:25, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Humanities

Trump and Rubio

Let's suppose that Donald Trump selects fellow Floridian Marco Rubio as his running mate. Let's further suppose that Trump wins Florida. Wouldn't the Florida electors be constitutionally bound to vote for someone besides Rubio for Vice President? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:21, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, or not vote for Trump for president. Alternatively, Trump or Rubio may change residency to a different state which is what Cheney did when running with Bush. RudolfRed (talk) 02:17, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

That would work. But if Rubio were the one to move, he would probably lose his Senate seat. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:03, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

This non-American would love an explanation of the issue being discussed here. HiLo48 (talk) 04:17, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Ah, the peculiarities of the electoral college. The issue is that the Twelfth Amendment to the United States Constitution says: "The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves. Hence, to avoid any problems, either Trump or Rubio would have to establish residence in a state other than Florida. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:44, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I see the issue now. HiLo48 (talk) 05:02, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

If, to obviate this problem, Trump were to change his official State of residence from Florida to somewhere else, would the change of jurisdiction have consequences for some of the actual and potential civil and criminal court cases against him? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 188.220.175.176 (talk) 08:09, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Not likely. Keep in mind that he's on trial in New York though he's no longer a resident. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:47, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't know if it's quite so simple. I mean it might not affect the trials themselves, but if it comes to it, Florida is known for their particularly strong exemptions for bankruptcy including the entirety of someone's homestead and pension even against civil judgments. O. J. Simpson was known for taking advantage of Florida's protections after the civil judgment against him. I have no idea if the entirety of Mar-a-Lago could be protected this way since Trump has been known to do weird stuff to reduce any tax which might not be so easily reversed. I'm not certain but suspect these pensions would be protected [11] and [12] although the federal government one could probably be modified by congress. I think Trumps previous bankruptcies have shown he knows how to use/abuse the system in other ways so I somewhat doubt even if it comes to it, this would be the way he'd handle things, but it is one possibility. Also while it may not affect any of the cases already filed, I think place of the defendant's residence can be a factor in where a federal trial might be held [13] [14] especially if the wrongdoing wasn't really committed in any particular place in the US. (State trials will always be in the state.) And of course, the place of the defendant's residence is often where they might do actions which will be cause for action e.g. the classified documents case is in Florida because Trump was allegedly improperly storing classified documents in his home in Florida. If Trump were to move somewhere else then future actions which might lead to cases against him would seem more likely to occur in this new state than in Florida. Nil Einne (talk) 11:09, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

It was pointed out in 2000 that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney were both mainly residents of Texas when the Republican ticket was formed (though Cheney claimed to live in Wyoming), but courts basically refused to hear the issue... AnonMoos (talk) 05:33, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

May 6

Scottish Episcopal Church

Our article says "at the Anglican Communion primates' meeting in October 2017 the Scottish Episcopal Church was suspended for three years from communion decision making on any issues of doctrine or polity". What if anything occurred at the expiry of this three-year period" ---- rossb (talk) 10:32, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Presumably the Primus of the Scottish Episcopal Church was free to attend the 2024 Anglican Communion Primates' Meeting which was held in Rome (of all places) a couple of days ago. No news yet as far as I can see. Alansplodge (talk) 11:05, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi rossb! This recent Youtube video might have some tangential relevance to your query:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr_0io98-uA

{The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 188.220.175.176 (talk) 15:56, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Providing historical context for photographs of Berlin, Dresden, and Prague as Communism fell in 1989

In 1989, I traveled as a tourist to East and West Berlin, Dresden, and Prague and photographed events in the two weeks spanning the Fall of Communism. I have now had those negatives digitized and would like to upload them to Wikimedia under Creative Commons CC‑BY‑SA‑4.0 licenses. The images are probably equivalent in terms of content and scope to any currently on Wikipedia — and usually of far better technical and aesthetic quality. And a few images are quite likely unique.

Before making the circa 40 JPG scans public, I would like to better articulate their historical contexts. I am therefore looking for input from folk who can help explain these photographs. I think you would need a detailed knowledge of these events and/or know where to find such information. I can easily arrange Zoom video meetings if useful (my timezone is CEST). RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 10:59, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

The editors over at the Commons have pitched in on this sort of project before, probably many more times than I happened to notice. Best to ask there. Abductive (reasoning) 08:36, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Please see: Commons Village Pump posting And respond there if necessary. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 11:18, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

• You may also consider posting this query on the German reference desk, called Auskunft, accessible on the en:RD under languages. By definition, many of the regulars there have experienced this era of recent history from either side of the iron curtain, be that in Berlin, Dresden or via printed / electronic media. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 15:07, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks. Have just done so here: German reference desk RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 19:28, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

May 9

Immanuel Kant, Benjamin Franklin

Did Benjamin Franklin and Kant know of each other, read each other's work, or meet each other or correspond?Rich (talk) 04:25, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

• Kant never left his hometown of Königsberg, and Franklin spent exactly 2 months of 1766 in Germany, which I believe was almost entirely spent in Hanover. So the answer would seem to be no for "meet".
• Kant famously described Franklin as "The Prometheus of Modern Times" (but not "The American Prometheus" afaik).
• As for correspondence, I haven't found anything, or anything about Franklin being aware of Kant, though I would have to guess so if my life depended on it.

Remsense诉 04:38, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Slavery in Vietnam

Hello. Does anyone know when Chattel Slavery was abolished in Vietnam? I know slavery was abolished by France during the colonial period in Cambodia and Laos, so I assume it was the same in Vietnam, but I have not managed to find out any date. Does anyone know the year when slaver was abolished in Vietnam? Thanks--Aciram (talk) 12:02, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

"Following a 'Government of Admirals' generally in favour of respecting traditional institutions, Le Myre de Vilers, who in 1879 became the first civil Governor of Indochina, introduced the French Penal code and consequently officially abolished slavery."[15] --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 14:10, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Ah! Excellent. Thank you very much!--Aciram (talk) 16:41, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

May 10

German South West Africa

Does anyone know why specifically the Germans were "granted" South-West Africa? I know that they established Lüderitz in 1884, but I can't figure out why they settled there specifically, other than for strategic purposes and proximity to The Cape. Could anyone tell me if there was anything else to it? Thanks! Roosterchz (talk) 18:06, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

I think it was just about the only coastal part of Africa that was unclaimed by other European powers. Having colonies was thought to be an essential accessory for any country wishing to be a major player on the world stage. The carve-up was confirmed by Berlin Conference in 1884/85. Alansplodge (talk) 19:34, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

With protectionism and the promulgation of Bismarck's anti-socialist law in 1878-1879, the colonial issue became a matter of interest to important sections of the German ruling classes... A colonial movement led by National Liberal and Free Conservative politicians began, which resulted in the foundation of the German Colonial Association on December 6, 1882... Colonialism became fashionable once the European powers partitioned Africa in earnest. Enthusiastic pressure-groups sprang up throughout Europe, agitating for colonies on economic grounds and as a sign of national greatness... The basic idea underlying this movement was that colonial expansion was ultimately only the logical complement to tariffs on industrial goods. While the duties created more avorable conditions for increasing German exports, entirely new markets were to be secured by the acquisition of colonies abroad...

German Imperialism in Africa: The Distorted Images of Cameroon, Namibia, Tanzania, and Togo

Alansplodge (talk) 19:51, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Avorable? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 188.220.175.176 (talk) 08:46, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

[f]avorable. DuncanHill (talk) 11:38, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, a copying error. :-) Alansplodge (talk) 13:01, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

See also the Herero Wars for a bit more info, and the German Colonial Society, as mentioned in the extract by Alansplodge above. MinorProphet (talk) 20:10, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Vlaamse Koning

Also, does anyone know if Leopold II could speak Dutch/Flemish at a native level? I would assume so however, I couldn't find a definitive answer. Thanks again! Roosterchz (talk) 18:48, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Did he understand Dutch? [He almost certainly did.] Did he speak it? [Almost never.] It was clear that French was still his preferred tongue, as was also the case with his brother, Prince Philip. In stark contrast, Queen Marie-Henriette did make an effort to speak Dutch. This was particularly awkward at state functions at which the royal couple were both present, since the queen babbled away in one national language, while the king continued to talk exclusively in the other! This inability (or unwillingness) of the king and his brother to speak Dutch was occasionally a source of criticism in the Flemish press.

From Belgium and the Monarchy: From National Independence to National Disintegration (p. 49)

Alansplodge (talk) 19:20, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

May 11

East-west interstates go 10,20,30,40,64,70,80,90 with no 50

The main east-west interstates in the United States, in order from south to north, are 10, 20, 30, 40, 64, 70, 80, and 90; with no 50. The reason there is no I-50 is because they thought that I-50 and US 50 would likely go through the same areas, and that it would be confusing. But, according to the US 50 article, US 50 is north of I-64, and the missing I-50 would be between I-40 and I-64. What's wrong with what I said?? Georgia guy (talk) 19:07, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Two thoughts… first I-64 may have been an afterthought (ie added after they had decided to skip both I-50 and I-60 in the numbering)… second, it seems that I-64 was originally planed to run quite a bit further to the north than it does now. Blueboar (talk) 19:37, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Where was it initially planned to go?? It goes from Saint Louis through Louisville, Lexington, Huntington, Charleston, Beckley, Charlottesville, Richmond, and Norfolk. What cities was it initially planned to go through?? Georgia guy (talk) 19:53, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

The Feds say that even going through some of the same states as US-50 would have been confusing. Remember, they reversed the numbering system to avoid the US Route numbering system. And I-50 may have never reached the planning stage. Abductive (reasoning) 20:26, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

May 14

Grade level splitting/staggering in American schools

I am interested in genealogy, and in the course of research I found that many American high school yearbooks over 50 years ago contained both a January graduating class and a June graduating class. Grade levels were split or staggered into "A" and "B" grades, e.g., you weren't in 10th grade, you were either in "10A" or "10B". Presumably one half moved up in January and the other half moved up in June. An example yearbook is here: [16]. Are there any available resources that discuss this historical practice? Helpful Raccoon (talk) 00:34, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

My high school in Canada did this too! Félix An (talk) 09:18, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

It would likely be up to the rules in a given state (or province) or possibly even the local school board. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

In California, the practice was in reaction to the baby boomers filling the schools faster than the voters approved new spending on facilities and faculty. By the 1970s, there were even split sessions within a single day: morning (7:30am-lunch) and afternoon (lunch-5pm). DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 18:58, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing -- this practice started well before the baby boomers and was being phased out by the 1960s. Helpful Raccoon (talk) 19:32, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

2004–2009 UAE population boom

According to the World Bank, the total population of the UAE double from 2004 (4m) to 2009 (8m). Was this really the case? Or is it just that the large population of foreign workers was undercounted before and that was fixed during that period? a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 06:04, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Their crude birth rate has dropped from around 16‰ in 2000 to around 10‰.[17] That seems to tell most of the story. Remsense诉 08:14, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Meanwhile, the inwards migration rate to the UAE reached a peak of 109% in 2007/8 [18] Alansplodge (talk) 14:40, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Is xe.com a reliable source for checking exchange rates?

Just for making deals/transactions among close friends with foreign currencies (not to send money), is xe.com a WP:RS to check the rates? Félix An (talk) 09:16, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, as long as a 1-2% variation isn't a deal-breaker DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 19:00, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Can the name of Virginia be changed to East Virginia?

East Virginia ~ West Virginia, just like North Carolina ~ South Carolina and North Dakota ~ South Dakota, they are “opposite direction” names, and if so, then we can have a state name starting with the letter E. 2402:7500:92D:FD81:EC83:9EB4:F66F:5867 (talk) 09:42, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

In theory. But why would they want to? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:53, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

North Dakota and South Dakota were decreed into existence by Congress in the 19th century, while the Province of Carolina was split into North Carolina and South Carolina in 1712. In neither case was one considered to be part of the other. However, Virginia existed as a British colony, then a U.S. state, for over 200 years, from the early 17th century until the U.S. Civil War, when it became exceedingly awkward that the northwest part of the state was solidly pro-Union, while the rest was Confederate. The remaining part of the state when West Virginia split off contained the state capital, most of the population, the majority of the land, all of the seacoast, and the political elites who traditionally ran the state, so it was the clear and obvious successor state to the previous undivided commonwealth (state) of Virginia. The Virginia elites did not have positive feelings about West Virginia splitting off, and felt that their part was the "real" historic Virginia, and so were not motivated to rename to "East Virginia". AnonMoos (talk) 10:42, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

If the name of Virginia be changed to East Virginia, then the game geography using the 50 States of America should be more interesting, since no State of America begins with the letter E but many States of America ends with the letter E (it is widely known that if the first player choose the state Maine, then the second player loses the game immediately, since no State of America begins with the letter E or ends with the letter M). 220.132.230.56 (talk) 11:05, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

The question was can the name be changed. Yes, why not? The US has one state that changed its name, with no problems. --142.112.220.50 (talk) 15:28, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Rhode Island changed its official name to what everyone calls it anyway. Is there anyone in Virginia who calls their state "East Virginia"? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:32, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Virginia has clung to a name that is only used in official documents and even hardly known among the Virginians themselves.  --Lambiam 19:37, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

To the contrary, as a Virginia resident for five years, I frequently saw references to the Commonwealth in non-official documents (e.g. they were frequently in my newspaper), and I suspect you couldn't live in Virginia long without being aware of it. Nyttend (talk) 05:32, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Commonwealth of Massachusetts, for example. Also, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Puerto Rico and Northern Mariana Islands. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:33, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

The usage might be most prominent in the name of Virginia Commonwealth University. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:27, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Every so often a governor of North Dakota will argue for changing it to just "Dakota". Then someone will counter-argue that that cold, desolate state should instead be just "North". And that usually puts an end to it, again. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:34, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

It's like Palo Alto and East Palo Alto. There ain't no West Palo Alto – even though we have a redirect. Actually, most of East Palo Alto is more to the West than most of Palo Alto.

Also San Francisco and South San Francisco, famously nicknamed "The Industrial City". Cullen328 (talk) 20:50, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

May 15

payment aggregators and payment gateways

Is it accurate to categorize payment aggregators and payment gateways as payment infrastructure providers or payment system providers? What distinction would be more precise in describing their role in the payment ecosystem? Grotesquetruth (talk) 11:00, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Walmart

Matt Stoller tweets:

The spread of Walmart in the 1980s shattered Southern politics, that’s *purely* a trade and antitrust story. The civil rights movement is not why the South went to the right.[19]

What does he mean by that? Walmart shifted Southern politics rightward but not the rest of the country? They are everywhere I thought. Was it just about consolidating retail or was there more, like offshoring manufacturing? Does Amazon have a similar effect now? Thanks. 2601:644:8501:AAF0:DBFA:4401:E57A:AAC4 (talk) 11:44, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Reading the entire Twitter chain, he is merely using Walmart as an example of a larger trend. His argument is that the South turned to the GOP because of economic issues, not Civil Rights issues. Whether he is correct (or not) is not something we should debate on this page. Blueboar (talk) 12:37, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Aha. I didn't see the rest of the thread. No I didn't want a debate, I just wanted to understand what he is saying. I guess it's not entirely about Walmart. Thanks. 2601:644:8501:AAF0:DBFA:4401:E57A:AAC4 (talk) 12:45, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

The author making that argument probably also denies that the Civil War was about slavery. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:50, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

For the conventional narrative which he's disputing, see Southern strategy... -- AnonMoos (talk) 16:32, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

House of Stairs II by M. C. Escher

Resolved

Does that [above] exist? Curl-up article claims it does (uncited}, but I am unable to find evidence. The following is the most comprehensive listing that I found: [20] -- 136.54.106.120 (talk) 18:57, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

:Is this the expanded version? Mikenorton (talk) 19:42, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

M.C. Escher, House of Stairs II, November 1951. Lithograph on 3 sheets of cream wove paper, 139.5 x 36 cm. National Gallery of Canada, Ottawa.

From STEPPING STONES: EXPANDING THE OTHERWORLDLY UNIVERSE OF M.C. ESCHER by the National Gallery of Canada. Alansplodge (talk) 11:09, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

 Thanks

May 16

Roman Inscriptions

Ancient Roman inscriptions often have a cartouche with triangular wings at the sides. What is the reason/meaning/history of them? You can see an example here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Roman_Inscription_in_T%C3%A9bessa,_Algeria_%28EDH_-_F002215%29.jpeg Thank you! 82.56.17.61 (talk) 07:01, 16 May 2024 (UTC) Block evasion. Dekimasuよ! 11:24, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

It's the shape of a tabula ansata. An academic reference on this type of inscription frame can be found here. --Wrongfilter (talk) 07:10, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Numbers and colors on a Japanese calendar

I have seen days on a Japanese calendar labeled with a sequence of numbers 1 to 9 together with colors. Apparently the sequence is called 九星 and goes like this: 一白, 二黒, 三碧, 四緑, 五黄, 六白, 七赤, 八白, 九紫. What does it mean and how is it used? Today, May 16, 2024, is a 二黒 day. What does that mean? 2601:18A:C500:E830:526A:B17D:E5EF:4ACD (talk) 08:40, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

The colour names are those of the colours associated with each star of Nine Star Ki; see Nine Star Ki § Star characteristics and compatibilities.  --Lambiam 13:35, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

May 18

Concerning cameras

Contax S

When was the 35mm pentaprism camera (SLR) introduced? I know the 35mm size was used by WWII but wasn't those rangefinders. Saw an episode og Hogan's Heroes and a SLR was used, it looked out of place. DMc75771 (talk) 16:26, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

From Single-lens reflex camera: "The first 35 mm SLR available to the mass market, Leica's PLOOT reflex housing along with a 200 mm f4.5 lens paired to a 35 mm rangefinder camera body, debuted in 1935." and "K. Nüchterlein's Kine Exakta (Germany, 1936) was the first integrated 35 mm SLR to enter the market. Additional Exakta models, all with waist-level finders, were produced up to and during World War II." Modocc (talk) 16:46, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Neither of those had pentaprism viewfinders. The 1949 Contax S was the first pentaprism SLR. DuncanHill (talk) 18:22, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Nevertheless, Hogan's Heroes studio likely used one of the 35mm SLRs in use during WWII. Modocc (talk) 18:46, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

The OP asked about pentaprism cameras. I know Hogan's Heroes was renowned for its historical accuracy and attention to detail, but it is just possible they slipped up on this. DuncanHill (talk) 19:45, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

I forgot. Hogan used a Minox B. Produced a decade later. Modocc (talk) 23:48, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Wazimamoto

In colonial West Africa (and I believe later, and elsewhere) there was an urban myth, folklore, conspiracy theory or belief that fire engines were used by white people to gather blood these vampires were called wazimamoto. The elements seemed to be that white people are white because they have insufficient blood and that fire engines were red to symbolise blood. In those days it was also common for axes and ladders to be strapped to the side of a fire engine, which could fuel the imagination, perhaps. I think I read an article about this belief on Wikipedia, but I can only find an odd line in the Vampire article. Do we have more?

All the best: Rich Farmbrough 22:25, 18 May 2024 (UTC).

Looks to be more East, than West, African, see Myths, Legends, and Faith: Wazimamoto, Vampires and Blood-Draining in East Africa, and Vehicles and Vampires. DuncanHill (talk) 22:33, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Other terms include mumiani and banyama. There is material about the history of these terms available online but we do not seem to have anything on Wikipedia at first glance. Dekimasuよ! 01:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

May 5

Latin

In an attempt to improve Thomas Rymer, I came across this: (see Talk:Thomas Rymer#DoB and 1st para, 'Early life and education'):

"Thomas Rymer filius Radulphi Rymer de Brafferton in comitatu Eboracensi generosi Lit : Gram : per octo annos a Thoma Smelt apud oppidum Northallerton dictum institutus, annos agens septemdecem, admissus est pensionarius minor, tutore et fidejussore Johanne Luke in artibus magistro 29 Ap. 1658."

Although my O-level Latin allows me to grasp most of the above, there are a number of words/phrases whose meaning escape me, namely: generosi; dictum; and agens. Fidejussore = "guarantor, one who gives surety or goes bail. (uncommon)." {{acad}} says Luke gained his M.A. in 1656.

My version:

Thomas Rymer, the son of Ralph Rymer of Brafferton in the county of York generosi was prepared ('institutus...est') in Literature and Grammar for eight years by Thomas Smelt at/in the town of Northallerton dictum, [and] at the age of seventeen was admitted as 'pensionarius minor' by [his] tutor and guarantor John Luke as M.A. 29 April 1658.

Anyone feel capable of filling in the gaps? MinorProphet (talk) 01:20, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps apud oppidum...dictum means 'in the said town of Northallerton', although it may not have been mentioned previously. MinorProphet (talk) 01:44, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

I'd translate it as "at/near the town called ...".  --Lambiam 11:30, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Most likely. I suspect it's a roundabout way of referring to places with no direct Latin equivalent, eg Eboracum, Glevum (Gloucester), and probably means no more than 'the town of Northallerton'. MinorProphet (talk)

I have no skill in Latin, but could the generosi element relate to Thomas Smelt, perhaps funding or in terms of giving his time ? Alansplodge (talk)

In the phrase a Thoma Smelt, 'by Thomas Smelt', the preposition a takes the ablative case, and generosi is genitive sing., so it must (hah!) relate to either Radulphi or Eboracensi. Whitaker's Words also gives "of good family/stock". MinorProphet (talk) 11:58, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Latin generosus can mean "excellent", "honourable", so (not quite idiomatic English) "in the county of honourable York"; more idiomatic "in the honourable County of York". And īnstituō can mean "to train, teach, instruct, educate (usually by a course of training)", so Tom "was instructed" in Lit & Gram. The verb agō, in combination with a specified age, means "to be so old" (see L&S).  --Lambiam 13:24, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Good old Lewis and Short: that ago is an enormous entry. I quite like agite, pugni "up, fists, and at 'em!" L&S is also available at Latinitium along with Smith & Hall Eng-Lat and others, intro here. MinorProphet (talk)

Does it not, perhaps, make more sense to take generosi as modifying "Radulphi Rymer": "son of the honorable Ralph Rymer of Brafferton in the county of York"? Deor (talk) 13:38, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Ralph, the father, was very much a Parliamentarian, hanged for his part in the 1663 Farnley Wood Plot to oust Charles II. The Farnley Wood Plot and the Memory of the Civil Wars in Yorkshire (jstor) says he was the most well-to-do of all the 'conspirators', worth £400 a year. L&S on Latinitium includes 'eminent' for generosus, and I feel that despite the distance between Radulphi...generosi it seems more likely to refer to him than Eboracensi. MinorProphet (talk)

Many thanks to all for your kind and thoughtful contributions. I found the admission entries for other Cambridge undergrads including Milton and Darwin use a very similar formula/template. Pensioners or Commoners paid for their fees and board, unlike scholars or sizars, who were subsidised. Thus:

Thomas Rymer, the son of Ralph Rymer. Gent., of Brafferton in the county of York, instructed in Letters and Grammar for eight years by Thomas Smelt in the town called Northallerton, at the age of seventeen years was admitted as pensionarius minor by [his] tutor and guarantor John Luke as M.A. 29 April 1658.

MinorProphet (talk) 23:37, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Although I felt that apud oppidum Northallerton dictum just meant 'in the town of Northallerton' rather than Lambiam's 'town called Northallerton', I just noticed that Ralph was de Brafferton with no ending, but with de taking the ablative: so why the extra dictum (neut. sing.) if apud oppidum Northallerton would work in the same way, with apud taking the acc. of location? I may be overthinking things (a fatal habit of mine.) I realise it doesn't materially affect the general sense of the whole passage. MinorProphet (talk) 11:58, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Why do people write such things as "a town called Meziers", "a large town called Bruges", "a small town called Thielt", "a town called Melun", "a town called St. Quentin", "a town called Noyon", "a town called Crepy", "a town called Meaux", "a town called Pethovers", "a town called Tusson", ...^[21]? This may indicate that they do not presume their readers' being familiar with these names. Is it possible that the Northallerton of 1658 was not a well-known place?  --Lambiam 07:54, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Well, it's an awful long way from Cambridge (in 17th-century terms, probably more than a week's journey by road). Although it was the county town for the North Riding of Yorkshire, writing a century earlier, John Leland says that "The towne of Northalverton, is yn one fair long streate lying by south and north", [22] so not a terribly big place. Alansplodge (talk) 15:39, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Point taken, leaving out dictum leaves a gap in the translation; I amended my rendering. MinorProphet (talk) 07:06, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Generosus was used to translate gentleman, e.g. here. TSventon (talk) 14:27, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Even more succinct, I'll take a dozen, please. Further amended:

"Thomas Rymer, the son of Ralph Rymer. Gent., of Brafferton in the county of York, instructed in Letters and Grammar for eight years by Thomas Smelt in the town called Northallerton, at the age of seventeen years was admitted as pensionarius minor by [his] tutor and guarantor John Luke as M.A. 29 April 1658." MinorProphet (talk) 20:42, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

With my limited Latin, I would say "John Luke, M.A." rather than "John Luke as M.A." Tutore, fidejussore, Johanne and magistro all seem to be in the ablative case. TSventon (talk) 22:02, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

References

May 6

Theatre jargon

I apologize in advance, but my understanding of old slang is not very good, and there's a lot of it in the literature. I am reading up on the cultural history of the Beat generation by John Arthur Maynard and this passage of his bothers me because it refers to old theatre jargon that I'm not familiar with at all. The context is the anti-consumerist lifestance of the so-called beatnik. Here's a sample with the problematic term in added bold:

The gates slammed hard on the Venice beats. It was one thing to harbor strange ideas; it was another, in the language of the theater, to "kid the show." In Southern California, the show was economic growth—and the unquestioning belief in its goodness.

I've never heard "kid the show" before. What does this mean and what does it refer to and what are its origins? Viriditas (talk) 22:55, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

"Don't kid the show. For maximum effect, the play should be acted completely straight, as if the cast were performing a serious drama. Nothing spoils a stage romp more than having the actors 'kid' a script that is farcical to begin with. Let the laughs come from the audience, not the cast" DuncanHill (talk) 23:27, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Ok. The Venice beatniks, who worked to live, not lived to work, and had "contempt for middle-class people and their values", embraced voluntary poverty and opposed materialism, were "kidding the show" of capitalism? It's just a bit confusing. Viriditas (talk) 23:36, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Out of curiosity I asked Perplexity AI to explain; in summary:

So in essence, "kidding the show" means a producer ceding creative control to the writers, composers, director or other key creatives, rather than micromanaging the artistic process. It suggests a producer who trusts the talent they've assembled to make the best creative decisions for the production.

In this context, I'd assume it relates to making something up on the spot, or about slightly changing the way something is said to influence how it's understood.

--136.54.106.120 (talk) 02:39, 7 May 2024 (UTC) -- P.s. link to perplexity.ai was not allowed

Acting straight when the situation in the play is funny for the audience is also the sense implied here.  --Lambiam 07:06, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

I can't read that, but "acting straight when the situation in the play is funny" is the opposite of the sense of the text I linked. DuncanHill (talk) 08:26, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, the sense in the article is the same, but I misrepresented it. The article, "Making you Laugh is no Joke" by Otto Harbach in the issue of Collier's of October 9, 1926, has a section entitled "No Fun in Kidding the Show" that argues, by example, that the comedic humor lies in the portrayed characters not realizing themselves that they, in the situation, are funny. "If Miss Vokes had winked or looked wise when she said this, there would have been no laugh. What made it so funny was her air of not realizing she was letting the cat out of the bag. If a comedian laughs at his part, the audience doesn’t."  --Lambiam 06:08, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't think I've heard the phrase "kidding the show" before, but I've come across complaints that actors who try to play The Importance of Being Earnest in an overtly mugging or humorous way are kind of missing the point of the play -- it's better to say the ridiculous lines with apparent solemnity, and let the humor emerge that way... AnonMoos (talk) 10:43, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

It's odd to me that Theatrecrafts.com, which contains a comprehensive glossary of technical theatre terms and expressions, doesn't include it. Viriditas (talk) 20:19, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

For some reason, if an actor laughs during a performance (when the character isn't supposed to laugh), or deliberately causes another actor to do so, it's called corpsing. —Mahāgaja · talk 12:07, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Wiktionary defines the term as, "(intransitive, slang, of an actor) To laugh uncontrollably during a performance." Of the three quotations given, the second actually seems to mean "to freeze", like Mitch McConnell when asked whether he will run for re-election.^[23]  --Lambiam 07:19, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

May 12

Questions again

1. Are there any words in English where letter C is pronounced /s/ at the end of word?
2. Are there any words in English where word-final ⟨ge⟩ is pronounced /g/ at the end of word?
3. Are there any words in English where word final -gue and -que are pronounced as /gjuː/ and /kjuː/ respectively?
4. Are there any words in English where letter U is pronounced as /ʊ/ in the beginning of word?
5. Are there any dialects of English that pronounce letter R as an alveolar flap /ɾ/?
6. Are there any dialects of English that are syllable-timed, and do not have vowel reduction?

--40bus (talk) 18:20, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

5. Scottish English. GalacticShoe (talk) 18:47, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Also Hiberno-English. Must be some Celtic effect. PiusImpavidus (talk) 18:50, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

3a. ague, argue, and also the name Montague. GalacticShoe (talk) 18:49, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

3b. It's a rare/alternative form, but que itself is a word pronounced /ˈkjuː/. Edit: I'm realizing now that I failed to notice that one of its meaning is as a clipping of barbeque, which while still an alternative form, is a more common word. GalacticShoe (talk) 18:52, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

As for 4, I couldn't find any when I was making File:Initial_Teaching_Alphabet_ITA_chart.svg... AnonMoos (talk) 20:12, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

As for 6, I believe that certain pronunciations used by some people in India approach this, but you might not want to call them "dialects", and native speakers of quasi-standard English might have difficulty understanding them... AnonMoos (talk) 20:12, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Item 4 - assuming that's pronounced like the "oo" in book, cook, hook, look, nook, rook, took, etc., one thing that comes to mind is one pronunciation of "Uff da". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:45, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

May 13

English variety where "what it's" is grammatical

I think I've heard there's a variety of English (might be a creole) where sentences like "What it's is..." or "It's what it's" (as opposed to "what it is") are possible. Do you know what that's? Nardog (talk) 04:48, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Ordinarily in English, stressed words don't contract (cliticize to the preceding word), and in the sentence "It is what it is", both occurrences of "is" are stressed. I can't rule out that there's some form of English without such a constraint, but it would probably be rather remote from quasi-standard English. AnonMoos (talk) 09:26, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

"It's what it's doing that matters" is normal (British) English, but that sentence moves the stress on to "doing". -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 16:16, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Also normal in American English, with the same caveat. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 11:49, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

And that's not what I'm asking about. Nardog (talk) 19:34, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

-er

Is a person who is a beer , a person who must a muster or a person who can a canner? --40bus (talk) 20:29, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

No.[24][25][26] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:35, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

"Beer" is marginally possible (though in a context that makes it clear that there's not a reference to an alcoholic beverage -- see "beable"), but the others are not. In English, modals can have two forms (can/could, may/might, will/would) or one (must, ought). In no case are there non-finite forms. AnonMoos (talk) 21:39, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

On the other hand, a canner might muster a beer. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:36, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

But can an oughter be mayer? GalacticShoe (talk) 08:31, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

A person who can can is a potential canner. People who can professionally are canners. A person who must muster is an obligatory musterer.  --Lambiam 07:07, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

And a person who can can can is a dancer.--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 21:05, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Beer was a beer but is now a waser. The OED has an entry for it with the definition "One who is or exists; sometimes spec[ifically] the Self-existent, the great I Am", calling it obsolete and rare. They give three usages, the earliest dating from before 1382 and the latest from 1602. No joy on canner or muster. --Antiquary (talk) 08:32, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

"If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:37, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

I have seen some beers, but Yogi's even beerah'! 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 10:14, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

If this is an answ, I am an answer. -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 15:05, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

We have "do-er", so "be-er" might be more easily understood than "beer". Alansplodge (talk) 15:57, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

There was a Usenet-famous character who used to throw the word "beable" around, for some reason. I never knew exactly what it was supposed to mean. But a nice explanation someone came up with is that it's the ontological counterpart to the quantum notion of an observable. --Trovatore (talk) 22:08, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Those might be the same folks who spell "no one" as "noone", which always reminds me of Herman's Hermits. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:29, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

To beer or not to beer, that is the questioner. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:40, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

May 14

"United States customary units"

We have an article on United States customary units, which is a useful term for what my dad used to call "English units", but which are definitely not the same as Imperial units. I have adopted this term.

But I'm wondering where it comes from (the term, not the system of units). Is it Wikigenic? Or was this terminology in use, systematically in the wild, before our article? We should in general strain to avoid making up terminology using Wikipedia, though in this case I would probably keep using the term anyway given that there's no other really good name. --Trovatore (talk) 22:06, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Reviewing Newspapers.com (pay site) for the term "U. S. Customary Units", it first turns up in the early 1960s, often in discussions about the supposed superiority of the metric system. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:25, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

At least a better term than the confusing and US-centric "standard units" I have encountered online. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 18:21, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

A term which seems to have been basically created on Wikipedia is Oxford spelling, but this wasn't discovered until 2010, and there didn't seem to be anything better to rename it to, so the article title remains... AnonMoos (talk) 01:12, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

This spelling was promulgated by The Oxford Spelling Dictionary, published in 1986, so its being referred to as "Oxford spelling" instead of "spelling of The Oxford Spelling Dictionary" or "Oxford University Press house spelling" was kind of unavoidable ([27], [28]).  --Lambiam 06:53, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Anyhow, see Units of Weight and Measure (United States Customary and Metric}, United States National Bureau of Standards, 1960.

So apparently the US Government made it up. Alansplodge (talk) 09:55, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

The exact term is also used in these earlier works:

Conference on the Weights and Measures of the United States: Volumes 8-9 (1914), p. 124, and

Measurements of Length and Area: Including Thermal Expansion, Volumes 2-19 (1912), p. 8.

Again, these are United States National Bureau of Standards publications, so it looks as though they are the culprits. Alansplodge (talk) 10:09, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I have added a brief note to United States customary units#History should the question ever arise again. Alansplodge (talk) 12:25, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

May 15

Talk the hind legs off a donkey

From where does this saying originate? Is it only British? 205.239.40.3 (talk) 10:03, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

talk the hind leg off a donkey: talk incessantly. British informal. In 1808 talking a horse's hind leg off was described as an 'old vulgar hyperbole' in Cobbett's Weekly Political Register, but the version with donkey was current by the mid 19th century. In 1879 Anthony Trollope mentioned talk the hind leg off a dog as an Australian variant.

English Idioms (p. 286) by Matthew Evanoff. Alansplodge (talk) 10:16, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

The source at Cultural references to donkeys (Davis, Graeme (2007). Dictionary of Surrey English. Peter Lang. p. 174. ISBN 978-3-03911-081-0.) also has horses and dogs. It says that the idea is to talk a donkey into sitting down, which would require exception skills, as a donkey does not sit. So the other variants seem to miss the point. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:38, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Although the recorded use of horses predates donkeys by at least half a century, so that seems a bit speculative. Alansplodge (talk) 11:06, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Indeed. And his suggestion that "dog" is a "Surrey substitution" equally so. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:45, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

That Evanoff source might be better one for Cultural references to donkeys? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:33, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Maybe, but it's "independently published" which WP doesn't like much. Alansplodge (talk) 11:31, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

You could use an identically-worded definition from John Ayto, ed. (2010). Oxford Dictionary of English Idioms (Third ed.). Oxford University Press. p. 347. ISBN 978-0-19-954378-6. DuncanHill (talk) 10:50, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

So done; many thanks. Alansplodge (talk) 10:30, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

"accidents and conveniences"

The article on Erik Sparre mentions "accidents and conveniences" based on "Sparre argued that the dukes had only a dominium utile in their duchies: their claim to enjoy their rights 'as freely as the king does in his dominions' applied therefore only to the 'accidents and conveniences' (tilhörigheter och nyttigheter), and by no means implied a sovereign authority." A longer quote is " med alla deras tillhörigheter och nyttigheter lika som vi dem på kronans vägnar själva innehaft " [with all their belongings and benefits just as we ourselves held them on behalf of the crown - via Google translate].

What is meant by "accidents" and "conveniences" and is it possible to translate the phrase into more modern English? I found the same phrase here from 1868. TSventon (talk) 13:23, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Legalese terms can generally not be translated by some snappy "modern English" term. In the Google translation you supplied of the longer quote, tillhörigheter och nyttigheter is translated though as "belongings and benefits", which roughly covers the idea and is understandable modern English. The sense of "accident" is sense 5 given at the entry for this word on Wiktionary:

Any property, fact, or relation that is the result of chance or is nonessential or nonsubstantive.

So this includes, for example, farms that happen to be on the land of the duchy. A legal term one might use is appurtenances, but that term may not be commonly understood. The nyttigheter comprise anything that is of use; the right to such use is also called "usufruct".  --Lambiam 05:56, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

References

May 17

Pangram

The abbreviation of the 7 days of the week -> not pangram, no B, C, G, J, K, L, P, Q, V, X, Y, Z

The abbreviation of the 12 months -> not pangram, no H, I, K, Q, W, X, Z

The symbol of the 118 chemical elements -> not pangram, no J, Q

The abbreviation of the 88 constellations -> not pangram, no J, K, W, Z

The abbreviation of the 50 states of America -> not pangram, no B, Q

So the abbreviation of which thing is a pangram? 1.165.122.186 (talk) 10:21, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

IATA airport code should do it (unless I misunderstood your question). 41.23.55.195 (talk) 10:54, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Also, broadcast call signs, at least here in the US, and probably in many more countries. GalacticShoe (talk) 20:58, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

One could argue that the Alphabet itself is a pangram, since each of the letters is a written abbreviation of that letter's spoken name, and the historical origin of the alphabet means that the original names came first. I doubt however that that is the answer sought.

The earliest known form of the alphabet we now use was based on Egyptian heiroglyphs (and speech): it was predated by the similar-in-principle Egyptian uniliteral signs, but there seems to be no connection between them. The latter might also therefore be considered a pangram. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.173 (talk) 11:15, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

The first two are unsurprising, since it's logically impossible for a set of 7 or 12 elements to contain 26 distinct elements. If you're going by ordinary words, then only a few English dictionary words begin with "X" (a perennial problem for alphabet books), and initial "Z" is also somewhat uncommon. AnonMoos (talk) 11:41, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Why does the word have to begin with "x" or "z"? What does that have to do with it? The most famous pangram uses "x" from fox and "z" from lazy. 41.23.55.195 (talk) 11:47, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Consider the six words:

cwm, fjord, bank, glyph, vext, quiz

The plural “s” can be added in back of one of the first five words (it cannot be added in back of one of the word “quiz”, since its plural is quizzes), and then we have a pangram which uses all letters exactly once. 220.132.230.56 (talk) 15:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

That's really neat but how does it relate to the op's question? 41.246.129.210 (talk) 15:32, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree that it's logically impossible for abbreviations for days of the week (even if you use Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun) but Jan, Feb, Mar to Dec gives 36 elements. Of course you can use J,F,M,A,M,J,J,A,S,O,N,D as abbreviations (12 elements) but what month is "J"? 41.23.55.195 (talk) 11:56, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

It is surprising that the mode for the first letter of the months is J but no single symbol of the chemical elements contain the letter J, since they are from the similar ancient names (e.g. cerium is from 1 Ceres, palladium is from 2 Pallas, and the month June is from 3 Juno), also, neptunium is from Neptune, and the first suggestion name of Neptune is Janus, if Neptune was named Janus rather than Neptune, then element 93 will be named “Janium” (like element 92: Uranium, which was named after Uranus), and its symbol would be Jn (or J, or Ja), I think that this name is better, since element 93 is the first transuranium element, thus can be the first element with a “J” in both its name and its symbol. (Note that the month January was named after Janus) 220.132.230.56 (talk) 15:05, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Between 1999 and 2012 (inclusive), the element symbols were one step closer to a pangram, since flerovium (Fl) still had its temporary name ununquadium (Uuq).

In some old periodic tables J replaces I for iodine (maybe to abbreviate German Jod). But this and Q wouldn't have been available at the same time. Double sharp (talk) 14:08, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

One of the Transfermium Wars elements was Jl (joliotium) for dubnium. —Kusma (talk) 10:32, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

True! But unfortunately, the current names of 104-109 became final in 1997, just before 114 was discovered in 1999, so the periodic table just missed being a pangram. :( Double sharp (talk) 05:55, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Scandalous! 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 09:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Another question: Use the symbol of the 118 chemical elements, and the abbreviation of the 88 constellations, and the abbreviation of the 50 states of America, what is the least words we need to make a pangram? 49.217.196.102 (talk) 10:27, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

May 18

vowel length contrast

I speak some Italian, so am familiar with short and long (geminate) consonants; but I am not acquainted with any language that contrasts short and long vowels. Presumably such languages have shibboleths, sentences whose meanings are humorously changed when learners get vowel quantity wrong; can you point me to where I might hear examples? —Tamfang (talk) 19:33, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

A classic example is that in Latin malum with a long "a" vowel means "apple", while malum with short "a" means "evil thing". Not sure if it was used in jokes, but it may have influenced the Western European Christian idea that the fruit in the Garden of Eden was an apple. (Jews in the eastern Mediterranean area usually assumed it was a fig...). AnonMoos (talk) 07:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Now I remember that religious satire site godhatesfigs.com, parodying Fred Phelps using actual Scripture citations. Except for the fig in Adam and Eve, there were several citations from that rather bizarre incident where Jesus sees a fig tree, that doesn't bear fruits since it's not in season, and gets so angry he commands a thunderbolt to incinerate it. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 09:20, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

May 8

Onion alliance

Does anyone know the origin of the phrase "onion alliance"? This is a phrase I associate with Survivor but the phrase may have been used on a different social strategy game before? I know that early seasons of Survivor has "onion alliances" but were called "sub alliance" and "core alliance" instead. (78.19.40.32 (talk) 18:53, 8 May 2024 (UTC))

Here's one theory:[29] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:41, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

May 9

Thoroughbreds

Why did their races get shorter over time and why are turf (grass) tracks more important in Europe while in the US the grass track(s) are inside the main outer one made of soil or sometimes artificial substance (not fake grass)? The US Triple Crown races and flagship race of the Breeders Cup (the North American "horse Olympics") are on dirt so if it rains before and during the race the soil could become mud. And why are US races shorter than European (England has 5-6 furlong races too its flagship race (St Ledger Stakes, 14.6f) is longer than the Breeders Cup Marathon which was 12 furlongs then 14 then cancelled for race strength never reaching the other races. Our Triple Crown is 10, 9.5 and a "Double Crown" winner humbling 12 furlongs (cause our horses are bred for more fast-twitch muscles), while Brits have Group 1 races up to 20 furlongs while we don't have any grade 1, 2, or 3 races above 16 furlongs (there are almost 100 grade 1 races in North America – none over 12 furlongs). Also England's 21.65f Queen Alexandra Stakes was the longest pro flat race on Earth before being usurped by Australia's current longest (22.87 furlongs). Australia's most famous race is 15.91 furlongs.Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:36, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Because like many other activities and pursuits, sports that are developing on different continents in near-isolation from one another tend, because of local factors, chance events and different decisions, to diverge from one another in their development. Compare with American Football and Rugby Union, which in the 19th century were the same game, but which are now very different. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 188.220.175.176 (talk) 08:51, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Does anyone know that are the local factors, chance events and local decisions? Did that fox hunter-invented thing where they bet on hurdle races influence Commonwealth and European breeding? However the oldest races at list of British flat horse races (1751, 1752 and 1758) are all 30.5 to 33.5 furlongs. It seems we avoided the NASCAR of horse jumping cause it didn't become a major sport till 19th century and fox hunting with horses and dogs and rich people was never popular here. And Europe mostly avoided our weird secondary horse sport of harness (chariot) galloping is a foul racing cause reasons. The most famous races of France and Japan are the metric 12 furlongs while ours is exactly 10 furlongs. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:42, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

This Australian is busting to know what that 22.87 furlong Australian race is. HiLo48 (talk) 09:41, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

As soon as you can explain how Australia turned the old rugby sport into something that looks kind of like rugby, kind of like soccer, kind of like basketball, kind of like quidditch, and I'm sure there is some darts, ballet, and Greco-Roman wrestling tossed in for good measure. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 11:09, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

There may have also been influence from Marn Grook, an Aboriginal Australian form of football that predates white settlement. HiLo48 (talk) 00:13, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Kind of like ball punching. You can't pass the ball without punching it I think. Also you can touch the ball on the ground once every 20 meters or so 15 meters if you're too amateur at the basketballesque dribble every 15 meters to be allowed to keep running from your opponents trying to sportingly hit you thing. I believe they have to run into them in less risky ways (i.e. no headbutting), hug till they're down and turn to avoid landing on them to minimize chance of injury. This was developed as a way for cricketers to use Australia's unusually large sports fields (which are oval) in the offseason. They didn't want it to be too easy to score since they could only practically increase defenders to the current eighteen. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:05, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

The ball punching (more formally called hand-passing) is believed to have come from Gaelic football. There are two legal ways to dispose of the ball, hand-passing and kicking. Dropping it by accident is also OK, if you're not being tackled at the time, but it's not terribly productive. HiLo48 (talk) 00:19, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

I watched one game once because it was listed as the professional sport with the least pay and viewership gap between men and women leagues. It is one of those games where you can't stop watching even if you have no clue what is heppening. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 16:44, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Even less than tennis, gymnastics synchronized swimming and figure skating? Indeed, very interesting, the goalposts are also a more interesting form than even Hogwarts' hoops and cricket's wickets and bails. Would be weird if gridiron American football, basketball, soccer or hockey had consolation points though. Like if there was a second rim 2 feet wider that gave half a goal. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:53, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Consolation points? In Canadian football, if you miss a field goal, you will often get one point (instead of three if the ball passes between the uprights). Xuxl (talk) 20:38, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, the rouge point. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:57, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Just to clarify, the one point is for keeping the other team from running the ball out of the end zone. Canadian football likes kicks to be returned. --142.112.220.50 (talk) 17:28, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Right should've said American football. In Australian football there's an extra set of goalposts that give 1 point instead of 6 if the main goal's missed but not by too much Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:23, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

The Jericho Cup, it's not big enough to have a Wikipedia article. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:43, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Wow. Thanks. It's great to be taught something new about my own country, my own state even, by a non-Australian. Yes, they do things differently in Warrnambool. HiLo48 (talk) 00:09, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

More Australian facts (which may be common knowledge to Australians for all I know): The first Olympic event Australia won was the Athens 1500 meters won by a Victorian Victorian – beating his other 1896 championship by like a few days (first Australian gold medalist won silver cause they hadn't thought of gold on silver/silver/bronze yet, Olympic medals have never been solid gold). The hottest Test was in Adelaide. The parts of Australia and North America made of the hardest-to-erode stuff are the oldest crust on Earth and the rest of the two plates are younger. In 2022 174kg 203cm Daniel Faalele of Melbourne became USA's heaviest top league footballer. The Sydney Harbour Bridge was strongly inspired by a slightly shorter one in New York Harbor (Hell Gate Bridge over Hell Gate, Bronx Kill, Little Hell Gate, the mainland and two small insane asylum islands that were only accessible by ferry for decades after HGB opened (the piers are stone not metal in case an escapee climbed a metal island truss and walked the bridge, if he crossed like 3 am probably no bridge users would know as it was only used by long-distance trains between NYC and South Boston Terminal)). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:09, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Ah, yes, Edwin Flack. Won the 1896 Olympic 1500 metres, and the 800 metres, had a go at the marathon but dropped out, and also competed in the tennis! It's interesting that he is clearly recorded as having been an Australian, although technically Australia did not exist as a nation until 1 January 1901, when six British colonies federated to become Australia. HiLo48 (talk) 01:09, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Maybe they sportingly wanted to not disqualify you from being one of the five nations to never miss a Summer Olympics? Also France, Great Britain (why not UK or England?), Greece and Switzerland. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 02:44, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

"Great Britain (why not UK or England?)"

England is only one of three nations of Great Britain, the others being Scotland and Wales. In some sports, such as Association football, they compete as separate teams, in others they compete as one, commonly called Great Britain or Team GB. In yet others, such as Cricket, the 'England' team can include Welsh players (formerly Scottish and Irish also), although there are also Scotland and Wales teams at a lower tier. Moreover, in many sports nationality can be changed by residency.

The UK (United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland) previously consisted of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland, and after most of the latter became the independent Republic of Ireland, retained the portion called Northern Ireland (6/9 of 1/4 of the island of Ireland). In athletics (and some other sports), Northern Irish citizens can choose to compete for either GB or Ireland; in some they compete for Northern Ireland, in yet others, such as Rugby Union, Northern Irish citizens routinely compete for Ireland.

The intersections of Geography, Politics and Sport can become complicated. 188.220.175.176 (talk) 10:03, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

The good old days when a random accountant or something could just show up, win gold medals, win gold by switching their steerer with a random non-compatriot spectator they asked right before the race, win tug-of-war, win while somewhat intoxicated and so on. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 02:59, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

UK vs US Racing – How do they compare? has some detail. Interestingly, races are run in the opposite direction in the US (anti-clockwise) because of William Whitley, who just wanted to be different from the British way of racing. Alansplodge (talk) 13:19, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

You do go anti-clockwise round a roundabout when you keep right, might as well. What was the traditional direction of English athletics tracks for humans? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:46, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Races at the 1896, 1900 and 1904 Olympics were ran in a clockwise fashion, potentially due to modern Olympics founder Pierre de Coubertin taking his cues from the standards at England’s tracks at the time. Indeed, runners at the the influential running centers of Oxford and Cambridge continued going clockwise until the late 1940s. The Olympic standard changed, however, for the 1908 Games after athletes showed up and claimed they were at a disadvantage after training the reverse way back home. [30] Alansplodge (talk) 18:26, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

This very comperhensive article discusses clockwise vs anti-clockwise horse racing. I found it while searching for information on the fact that here in Australia, it's anti-clockwise in four of our states, and clockwise in the other two. I learnt that horse racing at the ancient Olympics went anti-clockwise. HiLo48 (talk) 23:43, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Curiously, the antecedants of the Palio di Siena horse race originally ran anti-clockwise, but have been going the other way since 1633. [31] Alansplodge (talk) 15:04, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

May 13

Don Martin and Monty Python

There is a discussion going on in Facebook about a cartoon that Don Martin drew for Mad Magazine, titled "One Menza-Menza Day in October". In the cartoon, a factory owner tells his son "One day, all this will be yours" and shows him a view of the factory from his office window. Later, his son tells him "Thanks, Dad!" and takes the window and curtains with him.

Did this inspire the famous "What, the curtains?" scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, or the other way around? Or is this a coincidence? JIP | Talk 23:25, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Henny Youngman used to say there are no new jokes. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:46, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

The version I like is of an impoverished man showing his son his sole earthly possession, an awl, and saying "Some day, son, this awl will be yours". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 03:12, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

The movie came out in 1975. When was Don Martin's cartoon published? It would seem to me whichever was released first could not be inspired by the other... RudolfRed (talk) 05:10, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Reminiscent of The Muppet Show gag, where a doorbell rings and Kermit says, "Animal, get the door!". Animal returns carrying a door. Boom, boom! Alansplodge (talk) 14:49, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Baldrick in Blackadder II did that too. Come to think of it, Blackadder more than once claimed that Baldrick had animal relatives. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:46, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

It didn't appear in Mad; it appeared in Cracked #240 (see here about half way down the page). The issue was from 1985, so Monty Python couldn't have been inspired by it. By 1985, Holy Grail was already a cult favourite, so inspiration the other way is at least possible. Matt Deres (talk) 20:01, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

May 15

Lead actor in a supporting role

Is it unusual for an actor in a leading role – listed first in the acting credits – to campaign for and be nominated for Best Supporting Actor for that role? This is in regard to the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor. According to the article supporting actor there are no specific criteria for the difference between nominations for supporting or lead actor/actress roles at the Academy Awards and each case is considered individually. So I'm wondering if it's an unusual practice (and therefore possibly noteworthy). – Reidgreg (talk) 14:02, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I would say that it's possibly noteworthy. For that matter, it's a relatively new thing for actors (broadest sense) to actively campaign openly for an award of any type. Campaigning has long been the norm, but there always was a sense of plausible deniability: so-and-so just happened to make the talk show rounds, "the studio" was pushing for it, etc. It would have been unseemly and self-aggrandizing to say (out loud) "Yeah, I think my performance was worthy of Oscar consideration..." To do so for a "lesser" award would add layers of intrigue. Matt Deres (talk) 15:59, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Unlikely. There are a few instances where it might have made sense. For example, Bette Davis and Anne Baxter were both nominated for best actress for All About Eve. If they had been worried about splitting the Eve votes, enabling someone else (Judy Holliday) to win, then the scenario could have played out ... if only Celeste Holm and Thelma Ritter hadn't both been nominated for supporting actress for the same film! Clarityfiend (talk) 12:28, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

May 16

Glass with ice in "Perfect Days"

In Wim Wenders's Tokyo-located film Perfect Days, the main character several times goes into a bar (different bars, I think) and the waiter offers him a glass with a clear liquid and ice saying something to the effect of "For your day's hard work". Is that a Japanese custom or is it a courtesy offered by those bars to that customer? What is in the glass? Water? --Error (talk) 22:12, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

今日も一日お疲れ様でした, "Thank you for your hard work of today", is a common somewhat formulaic Japanese way of greeting a worker at the end of their workday. An American bartender might just say, "Hi", or if they are chatty, "How's it rolling?". The liquid is probably just water.  --Lambiam 06:46, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Resolved

--Error (talk) 22:38, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

May 18

Any ongoing competitive series about home or amateur cooks?

For all I know, there are MasterChef versions, like MasterChef (British TV series) and MasterChef Australia. I don't want short-lived ones, like Best Home Cook or Top Chef Amateurs, or any show about bakers, like The Great British Bake Off. Well, there are categories of such competitions, but I think creating a subcategory of them is risky and subject to guidelines. George Ho (talk) 22:48, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

May 5

Regarding “Daraja Tuffah”

So I was reading the article for the first stage of the Israel-Hamas war, and I came across a red link with the words in the title of this question. I did a little research, and I believe this could be referring to a location between to other locations, but it’s also highly obscure.

I also looked up the location on Google Maps, but no results were found. Can this possible mistake please be corrected? 38.23.177.112 (talk) 13:19, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

This is the reference desk. The place to suggest changes to an article is the talk page for that article, in this case Talk:Timeline of the Israel–Hamas war (7 October – 27 October 2023). Shantavira|^{feed me} 13:34, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Al-Daraj and Tuffah are two ancient quarters of Gaza City. Israeli sources refer to the local Hamas militants as the "Daraj Tuffah Battalion".^[32]  --Lambiam 16:13, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Coordinates, Please? 67.71.158.219 (talk) 22:39, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

"Daraja Tuffah" may not be an established name for a particular area. The original CNN news article using the term quotes an IDF Telegram post mentioning "the Daraj Tuffah area", characterizing it as an area "used as a terror hub for the Hamas terrorist organization". It may not mean more than "wherever the IDF thinks the 'Daraj Tuffah Battalion' can be found". Perhaps they can provide the coordinates of the over 70 targets that they struck.  --Lambiam 11:01, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

OpenStreetMap gives boundaries for both neighbourhoods,^[33][34] which appear to be contiguous.  --Lambiam 11:13, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Driving side

Are there any formal plans to switch the United Kingdom to drive on the right side or road? How likely is that the UK will drive on the right in 2050? --40bus (talk) 21:18, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

As likely as the USA adopting the metric system. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:23, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Why would they? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:43, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

I would very confidently state that there are no such FORMAL plans. Formal in this sense would involve government planning for such a change. It would be hard (and pointless) to keep such a proposal secret, so, no, no formal plans. Are there any formal plans to switch the USA to drive on the left side or road? HiLo48 (talk) 23:46, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Not if the Republicans have anything to say about it. No lefty driving for them. (Also, no middle-of-the-road proposals either.) Clarityfiend (talk) 01:23, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Yet they drive on the left side of the front seat. Unless they work for the post office. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:26, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Regardless of which side a country uses, the driver is in the middle of the road so if the driver is rather bad at spacial recognition, the driver will hopefully not want to drift so far over that he or she is facing oncoming traffic. If the driver was on the side of the road, it would be easier to drift into opposing traffic without obviously noticing the threat. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 12:30, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

But if the UK changed direction, most existing vehicles would have the driver on the wrong side. Alansplodge (talk) 11:26, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

The UK government did look at changing in the 1960s but concluded it would be too expensive.[35] With the increased complexity of the road system, it wouldn't have gotten cheaper in the last 50 years. Hack (talk) 02:29, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

And being an island country greatly reduces the pressure from neighboring countries to harmonize road systems. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 11:01, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

We do have a land border with the Irish Republic, who also drive on the left. Alansplodge (talk) 11:12, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

By way of a reference, this 2011 BBC article, Could Britain drive on the right? points out some of the disadvantages, including that 10% of motorway junctions (freeway intersections) would have to be entirely rebuilt, all the road signs and traffic lights would have to be repositioned, one-way systems would need to be reconfigured, buses would all have their doors on the wrong side... It estimates the cost at £40 billion (almost 2% of our GDP). Alansplodge (talk) 11:21, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I visited Dublin once, took a taxi from the airport. Cabdriver: "Where are you from?" Me: "Sweden." "Planning to drive here?" "No." "Good! See this roundabout coming up? Most accident prone roundabout in Ireland. People come to the airport, rent a car, and this is where they realize "Oh right... Drive on the left."" Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:16, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

There are road signs warning people to drive on the correct side, near ferry terminals in England and France, e.g. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 14:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Speaking of Sweden, the article Dagen H describes how Sweden switched from left to right in 1967. --Wrongfilter (talk) 15:18, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Has any country switched from right to left? —Tamfang (talk) 17:17, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Samoa in 2009 [36]. --Wrongfilter (talk) 17:24, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

And Namibia, according to the BBC article in Alan's comment above. In 1920, following occupation by South Africa, according to our article on Left- and right-hand traffic. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 12:33, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Okinawa in Japan switched to the left in 1978: 730 (transport). —Amble (talk) 16:50, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

May 9

Random questions

1. Are there any countries that currntly drive on the left but are proposing to switch to drive on the right?
2. Are there any non-scientific newspapers in the US that use metric units in their articles?
3. How likely is that the US will have metricated at least some measurements by 2044? I hope that the US will eventually have complete metrication.
4. Why the UK and its former colonies did nor metricate as early as e.g. Spain and its colonies?

--40bus (talk) 09:37, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

1. Why would they? 3. The US already uses some metrics. 4. The UK still uses some pre-metrics. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:07, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

It's not 'pre-metric', it's Imperial (though, to be fair, post-Empire now). -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 15:02, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Spain adopted the metric system in 1849, [37] by which time she had lost nearly all her colonies except Cuba and the Philippines. The UK retained a huge empire well into the 20th-century and had no need to conform to anybody else's standards. Times have changed however. Alansplodge (talk) 15:55, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Also, metric measurement was invented in France, so traditional British anti-Gallicism provided an additional barrier to its being adopted. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 188.220.175.176 (talk) 18:39, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

I have thought that the metric system should have been invented in the UK. Why there was no need to invent that there? Why the French tried to decimalize everything, including time? Why Brits didn't try that? --40bus (talk) 19:55, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

40bus - this is a country that still provides it's lawmakers with a piece of tape to hang their swords on. Bishops sit in the legislature. Men in funny costimes count the monarch's swans. Tradition trounces logic here every time. Alansplodge (talk) 20:04, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Speculation: The system of English units, together with the succeeding Imperial units, were legally established by Governments which were still very much working for and with (sometimes) the monarch. There was a natural tendency to conservatism and tradition. We still have a king, so we still hold by those units.

The Système international d'unités or SI units were developed at a time when the monarch was overthrown, traditions were cast aside, and all things were (theoretically) being made anew. It was an ideal time to create a rational and integrated system of measurements. It also means that Metric units are, in origin, left-wing (if not Communist) and so are still looked on askance by the USA. -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 20:34, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

One might have expected the young revolutionary Americans to have felt disdain for the imperial units of the Empire whose chains they had just broken free of and a willingness to embrace the new revolutionary Continental units, but the Quasi-War stifled any possible enthusiasm. In any case, the Treaty of the Metre was concluded on 20 May 1875, signed by, among others, the USA, which ratified it in 1878. The UK followed in 1884. The adoption of the international yard and pound ensures exact interconvertibility of measures of length and mass between imperial units and SI units.  --Lambiam 06:21, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Just a reminder that it's confusing and incorrect to refer to United States customary units as "imperial units". In particular the gallon is significantly different; this was an issue for Americans buying gasoline in Canada before Canada started pumping liters. (My dad, an engineer, used to call US customary units "English units", but never "Imperial".) --Trovatore (talk) 06:29, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Good point. When I was in grade school, we called it the "English system". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:39, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

When the Fench worked on a new, international system of measurements to replace all national and regional systems in use at that time, they invited to UK and USA to join them in the effort. Initially, they indeed cooperated, as the UK and USA also saw the advantages of a common system. Later, they backed out. The French continued their effort, now only together with some smaller nations. They didn't unilaterally impose the metric system on Europe. The Dutch, who had just kicked out their stadtholder (who didn't mind, as he very much preferred playing croquet in the UK over ruling a country), voluntarily adopted the metric system at the same time as the French. Parts of Switserland followed soon. Maybe no coincidence that those were two countries without a monarch. PiusImpavidus (talk) 08:44, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Metric system § History of the current metric system claims that the UK ignored invitations to participate. Should that be a bit more nuanced, or did they stop cooperating before anything actually got done?

Incidentally, Anglo-French Survey (1784–1790) (the effort to link London and Paris observatories by triangulation and measurement, which preceded metrication) expresses all lengths in feet, to two decimal places (about 1⁄8 inch). To my eye the article is rather Anglo-centric; did the French records disappear during the Revolution? and what units did the French use? -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 10:24, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

The Survey was based on an effort cooperative, yet not entirely concomitant. On the French side Gaspard de Prony visited Greenwich and wrote a report and translations for the French Academie des Sciences. The unit then that had been used by French cartographers before the metric system must have been the toise, unfortunately affected by the pressure of gravity on its standard ( see the illustration for Standards units in en:Fathom) so possibly too randomly reformed, around the 1670's already. --Askedonty (talk) 17:11, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

4) Nelson. DuncanHill (talk) 19:57, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Many of the former British colonies metricated pretty soon after independence. PiusImpavidus (talk) 08:46, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

1) Hong Kong, although not a country, seems likely to change over to driving on the right at some point, although I expect that the costs and complexity of such a change are just as much of an issue there. Currently, drivers have to switch sides as they cross over to the mainland, although that seems to be achieved very simply. There is talk of this happening in 2047, so maybe not anytime soon. Mikenorton (talk) 15:36, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

May 10

Instagram stars

How old are Kristina Musatova and Jessgotjugs? 176.200.133.219 (talk) 11:16, 10 May 2024 (UTC):

"Musatova was born on August 6, 1995, in Russia." Wikipedia will not allow a direct link to the source (blacklisting), but you can find it on starktimes.com using the search box. No idea how reliable the source is. 41.23.55.195 (talk) 13:32, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

This YouTube clip says that Jessgotjugs was born in 2005. Again, probably not a reliable source. Alansplodge (talk) 13:06, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

May 14

California Electoral College Result (2020)

Hi. I'll preface this by saying that I'm not an English speaker and maybe it was some kind of slang, I certainly didn't quite understand: when the Secretary of State announced the result of the vote cast by the Electoral College, at 0.12 in the link below, what exactly did she say? Thank you very much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ-tXzmMIHk 2.39.110.85 (talk) 11:10, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

She announced that there had been 55 "aye" (note that this word is pronounced exactly like the pronoun "I" or the body part "eye".) votes and 0 "no" votes. "Aye" is a word that is uncommon in general English usage, but is often used in the context of voting. It is an affirmative or assenting response. Basically it means "yes". So, 55 people said "yes, I am voting for Biden". --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 11:43, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

It would have been in common use in the 18th-century at the time of Independence. "Aye" is also used in the House of Commons of the United Kingdom. It survives in everyday use in some English varieties and dialects, notably Scottish English, and also in Anglophone navies, where "Aye, aye sir!" is the required response to an order. Alansplodge (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

I've just seen that Wikipedia has Yes and no#Aye and variants. Alansplodge (talk) 15:20, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to mention the stereotypical New England "ayeh". I don't know whether that still exists, really. My wife and I were in New England recently to see the eclipse and I don't recall hearing it, but maybe we just didn't talk to the right people. --Trovatore (talk) 20:15, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Trovatore now added. The reference that I found says "chiefly heard in Maine" (not mainly in Maine). Alansplodge (talk) 10:38, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

green fringe

If you look at this pic in full size, you'll see a green fringe to the right edge of the Moon. What made that? Delay between a green-filtered scan and others? —Tamfang (talk) 19:09, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes. The EPIC instrument is described as using a filter wheel [38]. That means it captures one channel in one exposure, rotates the wheel, captures the second channel in a second exposure, and so on. You can see a similar pink-purple fringe on the left edge of the Moon, and if you look carefully, a very faint version around the dark craters and other features on the lunar surface. —Amble (talk) 19:35, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Kona low

I've been through many different Kona lows, and one thing I've noticed just by way of keeping an eye on modeling and reporting is that they appear more chaotic and difficult to predict. Is this true? If so, why? Viriditas (talk) 22:19, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

More than other types of lows, or more recently than in the past? [I won't be able to answer either way, but the question isn't fully clear to me.] {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.173 (talk) 19:18, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I can't say with any certainty. My question is, is there something about the Kona low that makes it more difficult to predict at a microclimate level? I've noticed that whenever we get a Kona low, all the forecasting goes out the window. Is this expected or unique to the phenomenon? In other words, are stochastic climate models of Kona low systems less accurate than other types of weather events? Viriditas (talk) 19:38, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I thought you were asking whether the coffee maker needed refilling with a particular variety of beans. Phew. MinorProphet (talk) 21:13, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

MinorProphet, I have always appreciated your sense of humor. Not everyone has that, so I thank you for it. Did you know Kona coffee is now more than US$50 a pound? That's nuts to me. Rumor is that it's getting very difficult to grow now with climate change, pathogens, insects, etc. I don't think it's all that different elsewhere, now that I think about. Single origin coffees from Mexico and South America are hovering around US$40 a pound. Viriditas (talk) 19:29, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

I think that's a pont that climate scientists and activists should make a bigger point of. "Act now/Give now or prepare for the end of coffee." --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 21:09, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

They do! There’s been a lot of coverage on this point within the last two years. But, a lot of this is very late. I first got interested in this subject in the mid to late 1980s, just before Hansen gave his famous testimony to the Senate. It’s really sad to see how much the oil-controlled governments have dragged their feet on this. And now the same people are complaining that people aren’t having enough children? Our leaders don’t get it, and maybe never will. I am reminded of the famous Upton Sinclair quote (which I have deliberately altered for modernity): "It is difficult to get someone to understand something, when their salary depends on not understanding it." This seems to be true across the board in government. A good example is the official poverty measures used by the US government. It is based on archaic, out of date ideas from 1963 that have zero relevance to the actual world in 2024, and most surprisingly, does not account for what we in the modern world take for granted: "costs related to housing, clothing, transportation, and other expenses commonly considered basic human needs are not considered. And the official measure does not account for variations in the cost of living across the country." This is what insanity looks like. This means, essentially, that the US government has absolutely no idea who is actually living in poverty, and if that wasn't enough, does not want to know, as proposed congressional legislation that would improve these metrics has been fought by conservatives at every level. This is occurring now in the US, as "29% of Gen Z and 32% of millennials fear their financial situation could lead to experiencing homelessness". The government is doing nothing. The same thing is occurring with climate change and every other problem. We have a government that is blind and is being led by the blind and cannot do a single thing to help its people. In other news, just yesterday, a Florida Man signed HB 1645, a bill that bans offshore wind power and "removes most references to climate change in state law", in spite of the fact that 90% of Floridians accept climate change and 69% want the state to take action. This is what an oil-run oligarchy looks like. Viriditas (talk) 23:43, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't know about Kona lows specifically. Our article doesn't say much about size, but raises the impression that they're quite compact. I do know that weather phenomena get more difficult to predict when they're more compact. That's a consequence of the finite resolution of the computer model used for weather forecast and the finite resolution of input data. I suppose there aren't that many weather stations in the Pacific. PiusImpavidus (talk) 18:32, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! We've had a Kona low here for a week or so now and things have been really weird. Hot one moment, cold the next, windy then calm, rain then suddenly dry, etc. Lots of property owners spent a lot of money to put sandbags out to prevent flooding, but there hasn't been any yet on my island. Viriditas (talk) 19:22, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Huh, that doesn't seem that odd to me. We have weeks like that all the time in NC. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 21:10, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Keep in mind, the Kona low event is not considered normal or usual. I am curious how many times it happens in the Hawaii region per year. If I had to guess, 2-4 times per year? I don’t know. Viriditas (talk) 21:20, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

You mentioned stochastic forecasting (related to this?), which presumably involves basing forecasts of a weather event on the way previous instances developed. If a type of weather event is infrequent, there will inherently be less data on which to calculate a forecast than for more common events. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.173 (talk) 11:07, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Maybe weather in Hawaii is most of the time more predictable than in most places in the world. PiusImpavidus (talk) 07:49, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

May 15

Why is there an iron cross painted on top of this building?

https://imgur.com/a/Rg2DpRy

In the image posted above, there is an iron cross painted on the roof of an NYPD training facility. A friend of mine said she's seen one in aerial photographs of a Naval building in Florida as well. What's the purpose of the iron cross? I thought maybe something to do with helipads but it's not standard markings. Thank you! †dismas†|^(talk) 15:22, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Just a guess, but maybe a representation of the Police Combat Cross? Alansplodge (talk) 18:30, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

But it certainly is a helipad: NYPD Air Operations Heliport (Floyd Bennett Field) New York, New York, USA says "Runway edge markings: WHITE PAINTED MALTESE CROSS". Alansplodge (talk) 18:32, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

It's not a Maltese Cross, it's a cross paty. That said, our article on the Maltese Cross does mention aviation uses. DuncanHill (talk) 18:46, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Ah yes, Maltese Cross#Aviation says:

In 1967, laboratory tests, and flight tests at Fort Rucker and Fort Wolters, were conducted to determine the most highly visible and effective way to mark a helipad. Twenty-five emblem designs were tested, but the emblem depicting four blurred rotor blades, referred to as the "Maltese cross", was selected as the standard heliport marking pattern by the Army for military heliports, and by the FAA for civil heliports. However, in the late 1970s, the FAA administrator repealed this standard when it was charged that the Maltese cross was antisemitic. In the United States today, some helipads still remain bearing their original Maltese cross emblems.

I suspect that heraldry is not a skill required of helicopter pilots :-) Alansplodge (talk) 11:40, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

The Iron Cross, which is often confused with the Maltese Cross, has been used by Nazi Germany. It has also been used before by the Weimar Republic and is used today by the Federal Republic of Germany. It is a bit strange to call the symbol antisemitic. The Nazis also used circles and the colour white.

The abolished helipad symbol did, moreover, not really have the shape of either the Maltese Cross or the Iron Cross. If they had faithfully represented the cross as the area swept out by four rotor blades in about one tenth of a full rotation, the four outer edges would not have been straight but like 36° circular arcs, making an association with Germany even less plausible.  --Lambiam 19:22, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately, since meaning inheres in how a sign is used and understood, and nowhere else, if a significant number of people apprehend a word or symbol as racist, antisemitic, or just plain offensive, then that is (part of its meaning) whatever anybody may intend by it. Telling people that it does not mean that is not only useless, but false. See pejoration ColinFine (talk) 14:51, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Meaning is not absolute. It also depends on context. In English, applying the term git to a person is an insult. In Poland, someone so designated may feel honoured. When a swastika on a Hindu temple is understood by a tourist as being antisemitic, it is a misunderstanding. It is neither false, nor necessarily useless, to point this out.  --Lambiam 07:39, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

In American English, "git" as an insult is unknown (other than in the Monty Python "argument sketch") but instead is a hickish pronunciation of "get [out of here]" (as in "go on, git!") ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:27, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you all!! I'd done numerous searches for helipad markings but didn't find that the Maltese Cross used to be used for them. Thanks again! †dismas†|^(talk) 20:51, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

May 18

low gi cereal foods

in this section what do they mean by "low gi cereal foods"?

Healthy diet#Research 58.161.160.223 (talk) 13:13, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

See glycemic index, the effect of a particular food on blood sugar levels two hours after consuming it, oats would be an example of a low gi cereal. Mikenorton (talk) 14:03, 18 May 2024 (UTC)