Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Apollo 11
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Apollo 11[edit]
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Apollo 11 was the first manned landing on the Moon. We're trying to get the article up to Featured in time for the 50th anniversary, which is in July next year. Article has been overhauled, and is already rated Good, so bringing it here for review. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:35, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Minor comment The statement that "In 2015, the quarantine trailer, the flotation collar, and the righting spheres were moved" isn't supported by the source. From checking my photos, the Apollo 11 flotation collar and quarantine trailer were at the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center when I visited it in 2009. Nick-D (talk) 06:34, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
Support Comments by JennyOz
- Placeholder for now. I'm about 80% through notes on prose. Hopefully will finish in next day or two. JennyOz (talk) 15:41, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
Hi Hawkeye, following are some comments, primarily on prose and very much from a lay person's reading. I also took notes on some refs and inconsistencies. Will add them separately soon.
- lede
- launched by a Saturn V rocket from Kennedy Space Center - wasn't called Kennedy then (others at Anders below)
- Yes it was. The facility was given its current name by President Lyndon B. Johnson under Executive Order 11129 on November 29, 1963. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:42, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- Background
- Eisenhower's successor, John F. Kennedy. [13] - space before ref
- Since the Soviet Union had better booster rockets, he required a challenge that was beyond the capacity of the existing generation of rocketry, and therefore would mean the US and Soviet Union would be starting from a position of equality - Difficult to parse.
- Something spectacular, even if it could not be justified on military, economic or scientific grounds. - not a sentence?
- Kennedy's speech via here does not have cap on earth ie "safely to the earth". If we are going to capitalise Earth, (which mos typo allows) we should also Moon.
- required for Apollo were developed by Project Gemini - swap 'were' to 'had been' (so it doesn't sound concurrent)
- Apollo 7 tested the command module in Earth obit - orbit
- Apollo 9 tested the lunar module in Earth obit - orbit
- they launched Luna 15, - replace 'they' with the Soviets?
- Okay
- Jodrell Bank Observatory was called Nuffield Radio Astronomy Laboratories during that time (see note Anders below)
- and this was published in July 2009 - do we know where/how published, if not, is 'released' better word?
- July 2009 on the 40th anniversary of Apollo 11 - The Independent ref is dated 3 July so 'on' is incorrect, 'the month of'?
- Crew
- table has Armstrong, Collins, Aldrin but opening line "The crew assignment of Neil Armstrong as Commander, Jim Lovell as Command Module Pilot (CMP) and Buzz Aldrin .." It 'looks like' an error - suggest adding 'initial' or 'original' between 'the' and 'crew'
- Backup crew
- Anders... In early 1969, he accepted a job with the National Space Council effective August 1969 - was named National Aeronautics and Space Council (1958–1973), use pipe? (Anders' article uses proper name of the period. Others this page use the 'then' name eg Manned Spacecraft Center ie not Johnson Space Center, Sabine D crater not Collins.)
- would retire as an astronaut on that date - no specific date is given so change to 'at that time'?
- At that point Ken Mattingly... at which point Anders would be unavailable - swap second 'point' to 'time'
- Lovell, Haise, and Mattingly would ultimately be assigned as the prime crew of Apollo 13 - not really 'ultimately' because Mattingly was grounded and replaced by Jack Swigert
- Support crew
- During Projects Mercury and Gemini, each mission had a prime and a backup crew. For Apollo, a third crew - was 'prime' an official term? If so, add Prime to Crew table
- The Capsule communicator (CAPCOM) was an astronaut - clarify on ground at mission control center
- Bruce McCandless II,Jim Lovell, Bill Anders - space before Jim. Also, Anders not called Bill previous mentions.
- Flight directors
- Director/s or director/s
- Extravehicular activity (EVA) - is cap E correct?
- Call signs
- director George M. Low - pipe?
- Julian Scheer wrote to Manned Spacecraft Center director George M. Low to suggest the Apollo 11 crew be less flippant - ref?
- @Kees08: Need you for this one. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- I like to write all my notes down when I find a more complicated answer, so the information is not lost. Page 392 and 393 of Hansen discusses the choice of Eagle and Columbia as them names, but has no information on Julian Scheer (related to this, at least). Since the book says Michael Collins was the main driver, I found in Carrying the Fire, pages 332-335. It discusses how Julian Scheer suggested Columbia, and how Collins thought it sounded more pompous than the previous Gumdrop and Charlie Brown names, but says nothing about a memo from Scheer. Page 635 of Chaikin summarizes what is in Collins' book. The current citation does not appear to even mention the names. I should have started with online searches, because Chariots for Apollo has the text. I will let you incorporate it, unless you want me to. I would suggest incorporating more background information from Collins' book into the section, there happens to be a lot of detail about naming the spacecraft. We could even include when it was announced to the public. Sorry for the long paragraph, figured it is useful to know where the information is in each book. Kees08 (Talk) 22:24, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- I've created a new article on Julian Scheer. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 12:27, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
- I like to write all my notes down when I find a more complicated answer, so the information is not lost. Page 392 and 393 of Hansen discusses the choice of Eagle and Columbia as them names, but has no information on Julian Scheer (related to this, at least). Since the book says Michael Collins was the main driver, I found in Carrying the Fire, pages 332-335. It discusses how Julian Scheer suggested Columbia, and how Collins thought it sounded more pompous than the previous Gumdrop and Charlie Brown names, but says nothing about a memo from Scheer. Page 635 of Chaikin summarizes what is in Collins' book. The current citation does not appear to even mention the names. I should have started with online searches, because Chariots for Apollo has the text. I will let you incorporate it, unless you want me to. I would suggest incorporating more background information from Collins' book into the section, there happens to be a lot of detail about naming the spacecraft. We could even include when it was announced to the public. Sorry for the long paragraph, figured it is useful to know where the information is in each book. Kees08 (Talk) 22:24, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- @Kees08: Need you for this one. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- During early mission planning, the names Snowcone and Haystack were used - explain Snowcone for the Command Module and Haystack for the Lunar Module (per the pdf)
- put in the news release. - is that Technical information Summary pdf 'the' news release? Otherwise replace with 'in the Technical information Summary '.
- a personification of the United States - does Collins' book specifically say the 'personification' otherwise just 'historical name'
- Eagle for the national bird of the United States, the bald eagle - per bald eagle article, is both the national bird and national animal of the United States of America
- Insignia
- The Apollo 11 mission insignia - was the design used only for cloth patches (ie not as a logo on letterhead etc)? If so, call it 'mission patch insignia'?
- Momentos
- personal preference kit - explain what it is? i remembered from his article he also had a World Scout Badge. This kit is different to the 'bag of memorial items'?
- Site selection
- result of two years of studies - apostrophe on years
- Site 1: 34° East, 2°40' North, in the Sea of Tranquility (hmmm degrees minutes seconds?) The ref has Site One: 34° East, 2°40" North - so is the 40 minutes or seconds? (ditto all 5 site coordinates)
- Remember what happened in This is Spinal Tap? I don't think the ref is correct. @Kees08: Need you for this one. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- We could detail the zone they were interested in, instead of the exact locations. We could mention that three locations are selected per launch, to allow for launch delays. The paragraph should detail where they were looking to land (the zone), the down selection process, the requirement to have three landing sites, and perhaps the location of the final landing site. So I would remove the specific locations and do that, but I will leave it to you. Kees08 (Talk) 00:00, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- Remember what happened in This is Spinal Tap? I don't think the ref is correct. @Kees08: Need you for this one. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- The site needed to be smoothness, with relatively few craters - either 'to have smoothness' or 'to be smooth'
- Preparations
- Early Apollo Surface Experiments Package - wlink to Apollo Lunar Surface Experiments Package
- "crawler-transporter, bound for Launch Pad 39A" - add a copy ref 51 (Apollo 11 Mission Overview) for the rest of these dates
- A countdown test commenced on June 27 - ref 51 says 26 June
- Fuelling was completed by three hours before launch - remove 'by'? (or US thing?)
- written in the Atoll programming language. - ATOLL
- Haise entered Columbia about three hours and ten minutes before launch time - same time as fuelling taking place, more likely when it finished?
- Finally, Aldrin entered, taking the center couch. The closeout crew sealed the hatch - when did Haise and tech leave?
- Mission
- Launch and flight to lunar orbit
- William C. Westmoreland - article doesn't use the C
- 60 ambassadors - they'd be foreign?
- Spiro T. Agnew - article doesn't use the T
- Richard M. Nixon - article doesn't use the M
- Apollo 11 on July 16, 1969, at 13:32:00 UTC (9:32:00 EDT) - wlink EDTand maybe UTC again? (UTC is wlinked in first line of lede)
- the rocket stage flew on a trajectory past the Moon and into orbit around the Sun - comment - why?
- Good question. @Kees08: Any ideas about this? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- I do not think I will find a citation for this, but it is essentially a graveyard orbit. Since the Earth is orbiting around the Sun, you need enough energy to escape the Earth-Moon system and you will be in an orbit around the Sun. For a less successful example, see J002E3. An easier to visualize example is a satellite in a geosynchronous orbit. Since it would take so much propellant to send it back to Earth to burn it up in the atmosphere, they just push it further away from the Earth into a less useful orbit. Kees08 (Talk) 22:46, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Actually, page 7, section 'SIVB "Slingshot"', describes why they did it. To avoid contact with the spacecraft, earth, or the moon (so the reasons I listed above). They passivated the spacecraft by venting propellants non-propulsively (a simple representation of this is to put a tee on the outlet of a thruster, so the force going out each end of the tee cancels out). I think I crossed the line where I have too much detail, so let me know if you want more. Not sure if you or Hawkeye want any of this in the article. Kees08 (Talk) 23:25, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Good question. @Kees08: Any ideas about this? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:02, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- major landing or extravehicular activity (EVA) challenges - abbreviated already
- Lunar descent
- Eagle was travelling too fast - US spelling is one L?
- Or it could have been the - is this new sentence starting with 'Or' because not part of Kranz speculation?
- unexpected "1202" and "1201" program alarms - swap order
- in real time should it become necessary to do so. - 'to do so' not needed?
- Landing
- ACA - explain?
- "Out of detent. Auto"- fullstop?
- 413 - explain?
- Added: "ACA was the Attitude Control Assembly, the LM's control stick. Output went to the LM Guidance Computer (LGC) to command the RCS jets to fire. "Out of Detent" meant that the stick was moved away from its centered position. It was spring-centered like the turn signal control in a car. LGC address 413 contains the variable that indicated that the LM had landed." Kees08 is probably saying, "well, duh". I think this was added to give the reader a feel for what it sounded like. In addition, one notes that the CDR, not the LMP pilots the LM. The LM could be piloted automatically or the CDR could take manual control. Every CDR did. But it was just pointing the stick at where you want to go; the computer did all the rest. So it was more like the joystick in a computer game. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:39, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- about 25 seconds of fuel left - apostrophe on seconds?
- with "Engine arm is off", before - fullstop after 'off'
- and his communion kit was prepared by the pastor of the church, the Rev. Dean Woodruff - this can go? non notable church and reverend. Is in Aldrin's article.
- had been awake since early morning - add how many hours
- Lunar surface operations
- but on the Moon the cabin contained a large number of other items as well - any examples?
- At 02:39 UTC on Monday July 21, 1969, Armstrong opened the hatch... - this is a repeated detail of " The hatch was opened at 02:39:33..." a few lines up
- Remote Control Unit - caps intentional?
- folded against Eagle's side and activate the TV camera - adding 'to' before activate would read better
- incompatible with commercial TV - broadcast TV?
- The inscription read: - reads? ie still does
- and "almost like a powder," - move comma outside
- That's one small step for a man - this para aligns with Armstrong's FA?
- Twelve minutes after the sample was collected,[2] He removed the TV camera - uncap he
- integrated thermal meteoroid garment - wlink to Thermal Micrometeoroid Garment?
- but Frank Borman, who was at the White House as a NASA liaison - this is a better description of his role than where he is first mentioned just as an 'astronaut'
- During this period, Mission They deployed the EASEP - something gone wrong here
- used for the Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment - lowercase e on experiment (is e at Moon rocks section and in own article)
- core tubes - wlink to Core sample
- geological hammer - Geologist's
- Armalcolite was named after Armstrong, Aldrin, and Collins. - using italics formatting per its article?
- Not sure what you mean here. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry, my question should have used 'use' not 'using'. See second sentence Armalcolite lede where italics are used to clarify how Armalcolite is derived from their names. JennyOz (talk) 01:18, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Not sure what you mean here. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- Control used a coded phrase... Mission Control - swap
- Lunar ascent and return
- This was an inefficient tool - sounds like they were sent with a bad tool, maybe 'proved to be an inefficient tool'
- items in his suit pocket sleeve - sleeve pocket?
- one Hasselblad camera - after removing its film? emptied Hasselblad
- resulting in it impacting in an "uncertain location" on the lunar surface... then "and would have impacted on the Moon" - repetitive
- On July 23, the last night before splashdown - add 'on Earth'
- through the blood, sweat, and tears of a number of a people - remove the 'a' before people (I can't access ref 61 but used this)
- Greg later was thanked by Armstrong - move 'later'
- Splashdown and quarantine
- On July 12, with Apollo 11 still on the launch pad, Hornet departed Pearl Harbor to retrieve the crew. - 'to prepare' to retrieve
- Apollo recovery area - not yet defined? First sentence should mention where splashdown expected?
- Poor visibility was serious threat - a?
- Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
- locate the command module, the spacecraft - what is spacecraft referring to here?
- its priceless cargo of moon rocks - priceless warranted? sorta devalues the crew?
- Fleet Weather Center - pipe wlink to Joint Typhoon Warning Center?
- A different sequence of computer programs was used, one never before attempted - not clear? what is the 'sequence' ie program 3 swapped to five? to change the flight plan coordinates or software replacement?
- Added: In a conventional entry, P64 is followed by P67. For a skip-out re-entry, P65 and P66 are employed to handle the exit and entry parts of the skip. In this case, because they were extending the re-entry but not actually skipping out, P66 was not invoked and instead P65 led directly to P67. The crew were also informed that they would not be in a full-lift (heads-down) attitude when the entered P67. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
- a new splashdown target was designated,[119] 215 nautical miles (398 km) northeast of the original - as above the 'original' has been defined?
- Before dawn on July 24 - local time not UTC
- the drogue parachutes were deployed. - last mention was the sea kings so insert Columbia's before drogue. What altitude was she?
- There is no mention of re-entry, force on them, prep inside, etc
- Columbia struck the water forcefully - confirm was in target area?
- flotation bags triggered by the astronauts - activated?
- and position rafts - did they attach things called 'position rafts' or is position a verb here ie should be positioned?
- no mention of what astronauts said to recovery people
- biological isolation garments - no wlink available? closest I could find was Hazmat suit
- Look quite different to me. Here's Buzz's suit Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
- Divers provided the astronauts with Biological Isolation Garments (BIGs) - this repeats prev sentence (and the suits were put through hatch before the astronauts got out)
- wiped with Betadine to remove - does it have to use brand name here? (even though yes ref at 12-8 says "Betadine, a water-soluble iodine solution"). Betadine is a redirect.
- It's what the source says. (One of my work colleagues confused it with methyl iodide in a chemistry test.) Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
- The raft containing decontamination materials was then intentionally sunk - missing a bit before here ie astronauts first got into (winched?) helicopter
- lowered by the elevator into hangar bay - 'the' hangar bay?
- the five-ton Command Module - convert?
- dolly - just use 'trolley' seeing a dolly can also be a boat launcher
- ref at 12-9 talks of the command module being attached with a flexible tunnel to the MQF and the samples, films etc being moved in.
- Which reference is this? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry, the ref Manned Spacecraft Center (November 1969). Apollo 11 Mission Report (PDF). on p 262, (12-9)
- Okay, I see the problem. My hard copy of the Mission report is SP-238, not MSC-00171. They appear to be identical, but the page numbering is different. Switched the reference to SP-238 so we're all on the same page. Added a bit about the flexible tunnel. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:38, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry, the ref Manned Spacecraft Center (November 1969). Apollo 11 Mission Report (PDF). on p 262, (12-9)
- Which reference is this? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
- and finally in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory ), - remove space before closing bracket
- On August 10, 1969,... - when were their families allowed to visit? between then and parades?
- bill of health - there is nothing here about reacclimatizing eg weight / gravity
- Celebration
- Celebration - plural?
- joint session of Congress on Capitol Hill. - change Cap Hill wlink to United States Capitol?
- deleted Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
- Samoa which was brought to the - taken
- brought to the moon by Apollo 11 - cap M on moon, taken? (maybe 'brought' is a US thing?)
- Legacy
- Spacecraft
- (NASM) in Washington, DC - D.C.?
- Armstrong's and Aldrin's space suits are displayed - first apostrophe correct?
- righting spheres - ?
- on display along with a test lunar module, - fullstop
- are presumed to lie at an unknown location - can't presume it's unknown - it's unknown.
- and impacting the Moon - is this what is presumed?
- located the F-1 engines - is a redirect. Insert 'used in the Saturn V rocket'?
- Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center - wlink
- from October 14, 2017 to March 18, 2018, etc - are these specific dates warranted? Maybe reduce to months not specific dates?
- Moon rocks
- at the Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center - is a redirect
- wlink of Houston, Texas - should have been linked first at "Inside Mission Control Center in Houston, Texas"
- For safe keeping, there - safekeeping one word
- White Sands Test Facility in Las Cruces, New Mexico - near Las Cruces
- 40th anniversary events
- Life.com released a photo gallery - digital only on their website, not in print?
- In addition, it is in the process of restoring - update?
- set up an Adobe Flash website that rebroadcasts the transmissions - does it still?
- Re 40th anniversary too much info? - presumably 1st, 5th, 10th, 20th, 25th etc were also commemorated. Maybe a sentence. Will need a section for plans for 50th which must be underway by now?
- @Kees08: I'm tempted to remove the entire first paragraph. How do you feel about that? Do were have anything on the 50th? I know NASA will want to celebrate, but it will not be a good time politically in the US, so it may not be as big as the 40th. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
- NASA has settled on a logo for the 50th [3], so that's the hard part done. NASM is celebrating [4] and the US mint has issued a commemorative coin [5] Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:52, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
- I would be fine with changing the section title to Anniversary events and creating a main article List of Apollo 11 anniversary events. I recall events for both the 40th and 45th anniversaries, I am sure there was something on the 25th, and there will certainly be events for the 50th. We could then summarize the major events that occur during the anniversaries here. Thoughts on that? Kees08 (Talk) 23:07, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- NASA has settled on a logo for the 50th [3], so that's the hard part done. NASM is celebrating [4] and the US mint has issued a commemorative coin [5] Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:52, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
- @Kees08: I'm tempted to remove the entire first paragraph. How do you feel about that? Do were have anything on the 50th? I know NASA will want to celebrate, but it will not be a good time politically in the US, so it may not be as big as the 40th. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Let me know any clarification needed of my comments. I saw a list somewhere of articles being considered for 50th, can you remind me where it is pls? Regards, JennyOz (talk) 02:05, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- WP:S2019 is the shortcut. The DYK page has the most articles. A co-run of Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, Michael Collins, and Apollo 11 would be fantastic on the anniversary, but that is a conversation for another page. Kees08 (Talk) 02:35, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- Note: hope I did not step on your toes Hawkeye, saw there were a lot of comments so started hitting some of the easy ones. Kees08 (Talk) 02:44, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- Hi Hawkeye7 and Kees08, I'll try to explain myself. When I asked about emphasising splashdown by adding 'Earth', and suggested adding a bit more about re-entry, and my comment about 'priceless' etc, what I'm suggesting is a little more weight to be given to what was the stated original goal of the mission... to get a man there and safely back.
- Kennedy said to Congress "First, I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth."... "one purpose which this nation will never overlook: the survival of the man who first makes this daring flight." He said at Rice, "...then return it safely to earth, re-entering the atmosphere at speeds of over 25 thousand miles per hour, causing heat about half that of the temperature of the sun—almost as hot as it is here today—and do all this, and do it right, and do it first before this decade is out—then we must be bold"
- NASA says in summary top of this "The purpose of the Apollo 11 mission was to land men on the lunar surface and to return them safely to earth ." Somewhere else (I've temporarily lost which ref) says "This stride in the Space Race was at least as much to get a man there and home alive as it was to collect samples." Our Space Race article says "When the spacecraft splashed down, 2,982 days had passed since Kennedy's commitment to landing a man on the Moon and returning him safely to the Earth before the end of the decade; the mission was completed with 161 days to spare.[139] With the safe completion of the Apollo 11 mission, the Americans won the race to the Moon"
- (If the rocks/samples hadn't made it back but the 3 astronauts did (and were alive), there'd have been just as much rejoicing of success?)
- The splashdown was the actual minute that the success was realised. "Safely to Earth". JFK emphasised it and I bet everyone at mission control held their breath at that moment more than at any time in the whole mission. Start from Earth --- finish on Earth.
- PS and Hawkeye, if EEng adds that comment to Astonishment or to his wonderful museums (I've been terrified to check), I will have some trouble finding my forgiveness button for you pinging him. JennyOz (talk) 04:48, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
- The deed is done, I fear! [6] If you can forgive me nonetheless, let me suggest
On July 23, the last night before their return to Earth...
BTW, I can't agree thatThe splashdown was the actual minute that the success was realised
: there's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip. EEng 05:19, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
- The deed is done, I fear! [6] If you can forgive me nonetheless, let me suggest
@Hawkeye7 and JennyOz: Is there more to do here? I do have a couple of suggestions that I was going to have Hawkeye implement (like the list of apollo anniversaries), or otherwise tell me they are a bad idea. Not sure if there is anything else? Kees08 (Talk) 00:50, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Kees08 and Hawkeye7: Thanks Kees08 for the reminder. Will look over. JennyOz (talk) 22:32, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks @Kees08 and Hawkeye7: for your patience! I have added my support. Pls though check this... back on Oct 18 an edit was made to Insignia "put an olive branch in its beak, and drew a lunar background", changing 'beak' to 'talons'. Was good faith but editor missed reading its following sentences? Should it be changed back? Regards, JennyOz (talk) 11:13, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
Nick-D[edit]
Proper review this time. The article is excellent, and my comments are pretty minor:
- What "1201 and 1202 program alarms" are is unclear, though they are later explained. Does this technical term need to be used?
- The para starting with "The Apollo onboard flight software for both the CM and LM was developed" seems overly specific. Does it need to be included?
- "Armstrong stepped off Eagle's footpad and declared: "That's one small step for [a] man, one giant leap for mankind."[92][93][94][95]" - are four references needed for this famous fact?
- At what time did the moonwalkers re-enter Eagle?
- The first part of the first para of the "Spacecraft" section would benefit from the dates Columbia was displayed in Washington, DC - when I read it I started to wonder what had happened to this icon!
Support My comments are now addressed - great work with this article. All the best for FAC, and it will be good to see it on the front page next year. Nick-D (talk) 02:58, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
Comments by Kees08[edit]
Going to make some comments here. Reviewing just the sources for now.
- Publisher name for the Smithsonian should be consistent
- Is the bible citation correct..or needed?
- Can we split the Orloff citation up? It is from pages 102-110 and has 15 different cites. Can probably bust that up a bit.
- At least one citation (Excerpt from the 'Special Message to the Congress on Urgent National Needs') uses the last updated date as the citation date. Other cites (one of the Apollo 11 Surface Journal cites) uses the original publication date (1995) and not the most recent one. Probably should get them all consistent. I always use the original publication date. Wish our templates allowed for last updated so you could indicate which version you used.
- The citation titled Flight Directors is from SP-4029 and can probably be expanded
- Use an endash on this? Capitalize it consistently too perhaps "Apollo 11 Flight Journal - Day 1, part 1: Launch"
- Looks like Sarah Loff authored this? "Apollo 11 Mission Overview"
- For "Apollo-11 (27)", if you scroll to the bottom there is more author information. Looks like NASA SP-350.
- For "Failure is Not an Option (TV production)", are we required to have a timestamp?
- "Honeysuckle Creek : the story of Tom Reid, a little dish and Neil Armstrong's first step" should probably be in references
- 35th anniversary citation uses parameter "|origyear=updated December 9, 2007", i think incorrectly?
- Of the three citations supporting "More recent digital analysis of the tape claims to reveal the "a" may have been spoken but obscured by static.", two are from BBC news. Could probably get rid of one, or replace it with another. Would be nice to replace the Snopes citation with something better if available as well.
- This is a draft copy, is the official version available? "Lunar Sample Compendium: Contingency Soil (10010)"
- Can we get a better source than The Attic? Seems like a blog?
- We can probably be more detailed than: "This was related by Frank Borman during the 2008 documentary When We Left Earth: The NASA Missions, Part 2."
- I think UC Santa Barbara is probably the publisher here: "Richard Nixon: Telephone Conversation With the Apollo 11 Astronauts on the Moon". The American Presidency Project. Retrieved October 26, 2018.
- This can be expanded: "Moon-walk mineral discovered in Western Australia". ScienceDaily. Retrieved September 24, 2018.
- Based on the homepage of The Smoking Gun, we can probably do better than that
- Wrong dash: Manned Spacecraft Center 1969, pp. 169-170.
- Is The New Nixon a RS?
- Looking at the linked Google Book, this citation could have more detail: Extra-Terrestrial Exposure, 34 Fed. Reg. 11975 (July 16, 1969), codified at 14 C.F.R. pt. 1200
- Nothing inherently wrong with this source, but we could probably have better: "A Front Row Seat For History". NASAexplores. NASA. July 15, 2004. Archived from the original on March 19, 2006. Retrieved June 14, 2013.
- Not sure about Lunar Hall of Fame either (in terms of RS)
- Same with Fodors Travel. If not replaced, the citation can be improved
- I think magazine should be capitalized per this for Maksel, Rebecca (February 22, 2017). "Apollo 11 Moonship To Go On Tour". Air and Space magazine. Retrieved August 27, 2017.
- Date does not match up: "LRO Sees Apollo Landing Sites". NASA. March 10, 2015. Retrieved September 25, 2018.
- Expand this: Bezos, Jeff (July 19, 2013). "F-1 Engine Recovery – Updates".
- This title looks auto-generated and could be cleaner: "Apollo 11 SIVB NSSDCA/COSPAR ID: 1969-059B". NASA. Archived from the original on February 19, 2017.
- Expand this: Earth magazine, March 2011, pp. 42–51
- Are these dashes right? Bates, Lauderdale & Kernaghan 1979, pp. 2-3, 4-32.
- Job for the Bot. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
- What I meant is that the page number could be 2-3, and a hyphen is correct. If it is a range of pages, it would not be correct. We would need to know if the page numbers follow the 2-1 format or not, and the bot could not know (I submitted a bot request for this and it was rejected for this specific reason). Kees08 (Talk) 22:53, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
- Job for the Bot. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
Okay the sports game I am watching is ramping up, I am taking a break. Will have more comments. Kees08 (Talk) 00:23, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
- No worries. I'm off to the Canberra Capitals game. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:35, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
Side note, for whichever coordinator closes this, I am involved with astronaut biographies and a bit with this one, in case you want to factor that into my eventual vote. Kees08 (Talk) 07:53, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
Image review[edit]
- Why is the Apollo II mission in there twice? Suggest pulling it from the infobox unless that's a common theme among all the Apollo missions.
- Because of Talk:Apollo 11#Semi-protected edit request on 18 October 2018. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:42, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
- All images appropriately licensed.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 21:03, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
Support by Chetsford[edit]
I'm about a month late to this party so there's not much I can say here since most possible criticism has been addressed. I wrote the articles on John Hirasaki and William Carpentier so I have an inkling of knowledge about Apollo 11 via them, but not to the level of others here; ergo, I restricted my review to technical matters primarily instead of content and in that respect could find nothing lacking. The only possible comment, if I really stretch, is that maybe in the Mementos section there would be room to mention the two Purdue University centennial flags that Armstrong took with him [7], [8]? That said, this section could quickly balloon up to be half the article if we start cramming stuff in there so I'm sure it would be fine to omit, as well; there's so many asterisks associated with Apollo 11 that a risk is run of turning this into a collection of trivia if some standards of brevity aren't applied. In any case, what a really fantastic job on this! Chetsford (talk) 18:39, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
- The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.